Forsaker PrC questions.

[kreynolds]

Hence the reason why EOL houseruled it in his campaign that the Forsaker Inherent Bonuses stack with each other.

Here is how it stands per the rules as far as I can tell.

PC gains first lvl in Forsaker. Puts a +1 to STR. Time then passes.
PC gains 2nd lvl in Forsaker, now he can't put another +1 into STR because they wouldn't stack. He would get the greater of the +1 he already has there or the +1 he has to put there.

Obviously they meant to make it so that the Forsaker bonuses stack because they gave the Forsaker 10. If you did it the way it currently is, they would only actually get to use 6 of them, one for each ability score. (Maniacs original post was wondering about this).

Let me try explaing my stance another way. I'm beginning to wonder if the Inherent bonuses that the Forsaker gets are supposed to be treated as the same types of ability bonuses granted by character leveling. The bonuses granted to the character for leveling are not inherent. Those granted to the forsaker are specifically labeled as inherent, and thus imply that you are limited to 5 in any stat. However, that seems odd for the Forsaker, as they are severely limited in power by not be able to use magic of any kind, thus it would make more sense if their 10 inherent bonuses did stack. Just remember, the 5 stat increases you get for leveling your character are not inherent. They are separate from all other bonuses and stack with all other bonuses. However, the Forsakers are inherent. Thus the confusion.

 

[Krystoff]

Right, same as the Epic level +1 to ability score is an unnamed bonus that stacks with all others.

So it seems to be a case where they didn't specify how exactly the Forsakers Inherent Bonuses are to be treated. The same as a regular Inherent Bonus or as the Unnamed bonus you get from leveling.

I agree that the Forsaker as they need the bonuses to compare to other PrC's. So I would rule that they do stack and given their totaly magic free nature that they are just like the PHB leveling bonuses and freely stack. So they could get up to a +15 from leveling and a +5 from Inherent (+ 5 is not going to happen cause he doesn't use magic ) This means that even with my all bonuses stacking they are still down 1 point to any given stat that another PC of equal level is likely to have. Such as.

20th level BRB/Forsaker - +15 from levels

20th level BRB - +5 levels / + 5 Inherent / + 6 Belt of Giant Str for a total of +16

Edit, added comparison

 

[kreynolds]

Well, here's another reply from The Sage. Although, I must admit that I agree with him on this one, as it is simply a question of the rules regard stacking/nonstacking bonuses.

From: Kelly Reynolds
Reply To: kbreynolds@attbi.com
Posted At: Friday, March 15, 2002 2:51 PM
Conversation: Forsaker PrC
Subject: Forsaker PrC

The Forsaker gains a +1 inherent bonus to any desired stat per level. I have a few questions on this, just to make sure I'm handling this properly.

1) Are these bonuses still subject to the inherent bonus limit of +5?

Yes.

2) Do these bonuses stack with those gained by character level advancement? (pretty sure they do, but just checking)

Yes, your level advancement is not a bonus to an ability score, the score just goes up).

3) Can you put all 10 bonuses in one stat? (kind of a repeat of question 1, just to be sure)

No, +5 is the limit.



Skip Williams
RPG R&D

There you have it.

 

[maddman75]

The thing I don't like about them is the thaumivore - that's a cool idea for a PrC, but not what a Forsaker is supposed to be. Simple fix - allow him to destroy the items at once and store up DR time. Snap a valuable staff, you're good for a month.

In the end, it comes out to the same thing. Otherwise they'll just buy a bag full of potions in town and dump one out every morning. What's the difference? Its still a drain on the character's resources for the DR ability - except with the change it fits the flavor text.

 

[kreynolds]

The thing I don't like about them is the thaumivore - that's a cool idea for a PrC, but not what a Forsaker is supposed to be. Simple fix - allow him to destroy the items at once and store up DR time. Snap a valuable staff, you're good for a month.

I agree wholeheartedly. Otherwise, playing a forsaker is more of a burden than fun.

 

[Lord Ben]

I agree about breaking a valuable item. If a Forsaker goes and snaps a 10k wand of fireball then I'd let him be good for quite a while.

I still want to see something official on the stacking SR's. I don't think a Drow that gets SR10 + level would perfectly stack with a forsaker that gets SR10 + forsaker level. It should be 10 + 2x level instead of 20 + 2x level. Otherwise it's far more valuable for the races that have a SR already.

 

[kreynolds]

I still want to see something official on the stacking SR's. I don't think a Drow that gets SR10 + level would perfectly stack with a forsaker that gets SR10 + forsaker level. It should be 10 + 2x level instead of 20 + 2x level. Otherwise it's far more valuable for the races that have a SR already.

Hmm. Looks like my previous stance on this was wrong. Check out the Special Abilities in the SRD. It states that spell resistance does not stack, it overlaps.

 

[Lord Ben]

Well, the forsaker PrC says that this spell resistance stacks with other spell resistance. I just don't know what they mean by stacking. IE adding the two together or going with 10 + 2x level.

 

[Orco42]

I still want to see something official on the stacking SR's. I don't think a Drow that gets SR10 + level would perfectly stack with a forsaker that gets SR10 + forsaker level. It should be 10 + 2x level instead of 20 + 2x level. Otherwise it's far more valuable for the races that have a SR already.

I think that the SR should stack. A Forsaker is actually a pretty weak PrC, magic items are really important at high levels.

 

[kreynolds]

I think that the SR should stack. A Forsaker is actually a pretty weak PrC, magic items are really important at high levels.

I agree. Though the SRD and DMG state that SR overlaps and does not stack, the Forsaker's Spell Resistance states that it does stack with any applicable SR he already has.