Fortune Cards: and randomized collectible cards come to D&D

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Yeah, because what 4E really needs is to be even more like a CCG.

[/sarcasm] - please.

Many people would enjoy just such an additon to their roleplaying. Just because you personally don't like it doesn't make it badwrongfun. And luckily the cards are optional (bolded that in case you missed it), so people that don't enjoy them, like you, don't have to buy them to play. Even luckier for you, according to your status, you're not a WotC customer anyway and I don't see it effecting your gaming at all.

 

[JustKim]

I'm interested in giving them a try, but I'm also wearing a Snuggie right now. So I understand if my opinion as a consumer has little merit.

 

[Greg K]

Edit: Also, let me mention Cons, 'cuz it is a fair comparison. You pay at a Con for each session you play in. There are two main differences however, for me, between being willing to pay for demos at a Con and being willing to pay for a demo at a gaming store.

In Southern California, the big cons in Los Angeles, you pay one fee which covers all of your gaming. However, in the past, some small demos have taken place at booths in the dealer room or the flea market and have been free ( I haven't been there the last two years so I don't know if this has changed). However, here are the registration fees.

1. Shopper's Pass for the dealer's room? free. They previous owners tried going from free to a fee in the past and it did not go well leading dealers to complain that they go back to no charge.
2. Day Pass $10 (Fri/Mon) or $25 (Sat/Sun) for the day. Covers all of your gaming for the day
3. Weekend $50/$40 preorder/ $35 group preorder (for belonging to certain groups): Covers all of your weekend gaming.
4. Season (next 3 cons) $90

 

[Tallifer]

These cards are horrible. As written they do not increase or aid roleplaying in any way. There is no fluff, there are no plot points: only mechanical benefits for combat.

Which means that these cards only introduce the creeping increase of power for the characters to a table. The dungeon master's estimated balance of the encounter is disrupted. The player who buys cards probably has more power and fun than the other players who did not buy cards.

Worse still, you cannot even buy all the cards conveniently, but must rely on random luck and multiple purchases to find the cards you might want for your group.

Furthermore, they cannot be conveniently printed out using the Character Builder. For those of us who have no ready access to a gaming store (such as in rural areas or exotic countries), DDI is much more convenient than relying on a supply of hard copy books or cards.

 

[DMZ2112]

[/sarcasm] - please.

Many people would enjoy just such an additon to their roleplaying. Just because you personally don't like it doesn't make it badwrongfun. And luckily the cards are optional (bolded that in case you missed it), so people that don't enjoy them, like you, don't have to buy them to play. Even luckier for you, according to your status, you're not a WotC customer anyway and I don't see it effecting your gaming at all.

They are optional right now, but history and experience clearly show that they will not stay that way. Assuming that the card sales do not tank, the game will be balanced assuming their use within 12 months. It will have to be, because that is Wizards' sales model. If the latest book (or set of cards) does not provide an advantage, it will not interest their core audience. And in order for the next card set (a wholly mechanical supplement) to provide an advantage over the existing one the contemporary publications will have to be nudged upwards in difficulty.

Whether or not you think this is a good thing is none of my concern, but don't trundle out the old "optional" chestnut to defend it. No rules supplement to a current RPG is ever truly optional. By next year, players will have two options: use the cards, or force their DMs to dumb down official material to keep encounters fair. At the very least, LFR is destined to become a very different landscape.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Assuming that the card sales do not tank.

Well, we all have a say in that, with our wallets (I don't begrudge those who want the cards, but I won't be buying them). If they do become popular enough to influence the game, then the audience is getting what they want. I don't exactly buy you "shadow necessity" argument either. Different groups appraoch the game differently and always have since the inception of the game. The DM has always had to adjust for his players style of play from the official material. So, your "problem" with amped up power already exists for, I would hazard to guess, a majority of groups playing any edition of the game.

At the very least, LFR is destined to become a very different landscape.

LFR has one main DM: the RPGA. The guy at the table is just a judge. They even call them that. If you want to play in that DM's campaign, then you have to follow his rules. Again, it has always been that way and you can vote against bad DM rules the same way gamers have for decades, with their feet. Or you can create a fan movement imploring the RPGA to change their rules. There are many other options available than playing in a campaign you don't enjoy. I used to play LG and walked away because I didn't like the direction the DM took the overall campaign.

 

[DMZ2112]

I disagree. While every DM modifies official material for their campaigns, there is a difference between picking and choosing rules from a static base and having that static base suddenly convulse under you. These cards are not unlike the shift between 3.0 and 3.5, or between 3.5 and Pathfinder. It's not so much a matter of rule additions as it is the holistic upward change in campaign baseline. Can you play a D&D3.0 character in Pathfinder? Absolutely. But you will be at a consistent disadvantage. These cards make the same promise: upgrade or fall behind.

Again, I agree: all DMs modify official material, and they do it all the time. But I would also argue that all DMs rely on the ability to run official monsters as published, especially in D&D4, and once the campaign baseline is raised that becomes impossible. Every newly published monster will statistically outmatch a character not using Fortune Cards.

Common And fiscal sense both support my position: Wizards would be MAD not to ultimately require the use of these cards. All cynicism aside, this is a tried and true -- and incredibly successful -- business model! All that remains to be seen is whether the D&D4 demographic goes for the bait, and that I'm not sure of. Player pressure killed randomized D&D miniatures, but then again, they came right back as soon as profits dipped even further.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Every newly published monster will statistically outmatch a character not using Fortune Cards.

I really do not buy this. Designers sitting around and saying, "Well, this creature was ok by MV standards, but now, we gotta change it around a bit to account for the cards. What would it be? A +2 damage, +1 to hit, +1 to a defense? How would they account for he use of fortune cards. And how would it put every previous character behind the 8 ball?

May as well give a creature an aura:

Aura (infinity): Creatures in the aura may not use fortune cards.

Sorry to say, but there is one creature with that aura on every campaign world I will run in 4E.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I disagree. While every DM modifies official material for their campaigns, there is a difference between picking and choosing rules from a static base and having that static base suddenly convulse under you. These cards are not unlike the shift between 3.0 and 3.5, or between 3.5 and Pathfinder. It's not so much a matter of rule additions as it is the holistic upward change in campaign baseline. Can you play a D&D3.0 character in Pathfinder? Absolutely. But you will be at a consistent disadvantage. These cards make the same promise: upgrade or fall behind.

So you agree it is the nature of the game. The Companion Set for BECMI changed the game for characters of all levels. Unearthed Arcana for 1E. Skills and Powers for 2E. And the examples you gave for 3rd. Why should anyone expect anything different after all these years? And you do what every DM has done in the past: ignore or adapt.

Again, I agree: all DMs modify official material, and they do it all the time. But I would also argue that all DMs rely on the ability to run official monsters as published, especially in D&D4, and once the campaign baseline is raised that becomes impossible. Every newly published monster will statistically outmatch a character not using Fortune Cards.

So ignore the new monsters (don't buy the new material) or adapt the way you use it.

Common And fiscal sense both support my position: Wizards would be MAD not to ultimately require the use of these cards. All cynicism aside, this is a tried and true -- and incredibly successful -- business model! All that remains to be seen is whether the D&D4 demographic goes for the bait, and that I'm not sure of. Player pressure killed randomized D&D miniatures, but then again, they came right back as soon as profits dipped even further.

This is a successful business model for CCGs, not RPGs. They would be just as mad to require the use of the cards if it started driving too many customers away. They are testing the market and the players will vote with their wallets whether the cards become "mandatory" or not. I know that I can continue to play my game indefinitely whether these cards exist, become "mandatory," or fade away to obscurity.

 

[shadzar]

I really do not buy this.

Why? The power curve needs to be maintained in order to have the game be balanced.

I would look at it like this:

Is 4th edition a TPK field, such that PCs need some added advantage?

If the answer is no, then you are putting the game on easy mode.

For those not wanting to play in easy mode, but still want a fair challenge, you need monsters power levels to increase in some faction to counteract these fortune card, but still allow the fortune cards the advantage of surprise ability function each encounter.

Probably why "events directed at experienced player will be required to purchase them", as those events will feature non-standard challenges which may require the extra help, as an experienced player shouldnt need the "surprise ability" to keep their game enjoyable, unless the game has already become stagnant for them and eneds something to bring interest back to it so as to remove them from the rut they are in.