Found the fun in gaming again

[TheGM]

All good advice.

I've seen this syndrome, and I've seen it sap the life out of campaigns.

I'm glad you broke out of it, you'll have more fun now, because you won't be able to go back.

I've got a couple of players I'm trying to break of the habit, but sometimes they choose to follow that lead, and it ends in trouble, then they're uber-cautious again... So the going is slow, I wish they would come to the conclusion on thier own... It's cool that you did.

As to the geeks that tell other players they should do this or do that to get more hit potential or deal more damage... I quash them like bugs. "You're a fighter and you're telling the priest what spell to cast? Where did you get this knowledge, oh dead person who has not fallen down yet?"

The GM definitely has a lot of control over this stuff, but when you get a player from a game where this stuff was reinforced it does take time to retrain them.

Go out there, act a little rash. The GM will like it more if you have a good GM, and you'll all have more fun.

Some day I'll list the story about the party of three that stole the human sacrifice off the altar of an evil temple... Outside the planned game, and one of the best games I've had in years.

 

[Elf Witch]

It's also difficult to solve a problem if there is no problem to solve.

Just to play devil's advocate, maybe the rest of the group enjoys playing like that. Different strokes for different folks.

It is not just me and my roommate but another player sent me an email tonight saying that the article was great and described his frustration with the game. I never knew he was not having that much fun. He hid it well.

One of the side effects of all this is that we have three games going and some play in one or two I and the worse offender play in all three and this issue is happening in all three with three different DMs :\ Now the one DM has a handle on it things are going pretty good in that game the other two are having problems. So it is hard to just up and quit one game. I have played with the guy who is the control freak for 10 years and it is only in the last two years that he has gotten so bad. It is like he does not trust my roommate or myself to play he is always trying to stop us, leave us out of the planning, run roughshod over us. he has his character do things that make no sense for example in the one game we play he is a paladin and I am lawful good fighter of the same order. I have never given him any reason to mistrust my character yet when he got his army he gave orders that they were never listen to anyone but him and another player. Even the DM was like why. Though we know why he is afraid of what I might do because only he and this other player are optimal power gamers.

To stay in the game and keep the group together I have metagamed the situation because if I role played my character would be finished with him. I have to metagame a lot now to keep the peace.

That and the over planning (and of course the plans never work) and the session grinding to a stop after the DM describes the next room and he has to discuss every possible angle of if it is safe enough and what dangers are there and the best way to handle it. A lot of times my roommates character just sighs and walks in. Not caring at that point if the roof comes down on her head.

And until Friday night I had forgotten just how much fun gaming can be. I actually had a knot in my stomach when the barbarian came at me with his axe. It was great. Okay getting knocked to 0 HP in one round was not great but hey if my character had died at least it would have been while having some fun.

 

[Kaos]

Well here goes. You never say anything that is not flattery to anyone in power. Which means you never disagree with them or god forbid come out and and tell them they are wrong.
<snip rest>

Uh-huh.
With that set of 'metagame rules,' I'm not at all surprised you weren't having any fun.

 

[Thanee]

Tonight I rediscovered something that has been missing for awhile in my gaming. Fun.

That's good! What's gaming without fun!?

We had gone into a bar to get infomation from these bad guys the plan was to try and evesdrop on them or if worse came to worse follow one of them drunk home and have the mage cast charm. We were not all at full hitpoints and they were. We are a party made up of second and third level PCS and they had a mage and a barbarian with an axe. By all logic we should have not done anything to get into it with them. That axe alone had the power to instanly kill any one of us.

As we were trying to evesdrop my character tried some strong wine that made her throw up. The bad guys started laughing at her. Without thinking I threw down a gold piece and bet one of them could not keep it down either. The leader with the axe the town's bully came up and just tried to take my gold. Again I reacted in character and plunged my dagger in his hand. A huge fight broke out. We almost died one of us went to -6 I got hit once with the axe and went to 0. But we won in the end with our mage beating the barbarian to death with his quaterstaff. It was great. We ended up getting the info we needed some cool items and the bars respect.

But the best thing was the laughter at the table the high fiving when the mage took out the barbarian.

Heh. That sounds like our recent games...

My sorceress is the *only* character with a strength below 18(!) and she has routinely delivered the final blow with her mighty dagger (often with a critical as well). In fact, the first couple bigger opponents were ALL defeated that way... LOL

She has upgraded to a +1 heavy mace now, since noone else wanted that.

And we also had a somewhat similar scene in a bar, which went a little different, tho. We were looking for some guy who was working for a cult there, hiring people to kill us, since we were (still are ) quite troublesome for said cult. So my sorceress disguised herself and got in there to lure him out. She told him, that she knew where the folks are, that he is looking for...

The pretty improvised plan worked out, he followed her... together with about twenty patrons who wanted to help him and join the hunt... weeeell... and to top this off, the guy himself turned out to be a warmage. double -

The four of us somehow managed to defeat them, though, thanks to a well-placed Entangle and some lucky rolls.

Bye
Thanee

 

[William Ronald]

Elf Witch, I think that there is some hope for your group changing as three people have favorable opinions of the article. I think that part of playing a hero is to remember that heroes take risks. As things stand, I think that the group may risk having very few allies, and that they may needlessly make enemies. (Plus, their current enemies could hire a few bards to spread tales of their caution.) There are many excellent suggestions here, but I think one that would be very effective is to have doors slammed in the faces of the characters. It seems that the meta-game rules would tend to alienate every NPC that the party encounters.

I hope that you can reach the rest of your group. Do not let yourself be bullied. Indeed, denying a bully control over your actions is perhaps the most frustrating thing to such a personality. I think your group needs an honest discussion. Is it about fun, or creating an optimized character who never truly faces any tough decisions. I believe that some planning is necessary, but it sounds as if some players are willing to plan not only the actions of their characters but of others as well. So, I hope you can work things out. Maybe a talk with the DM is in order. Invite him to this thread. Maybe he can have some impact on the group. Perhaps the controlling player does not care that he is limiting your fun. If so, I think an honest discussion is in order. It may get heated, but at least you might gain some insights into what move you should make next.

If not, it might be time to move on. The whole point of gaming is to have fun, and it seems to have been lost on some players.

 

[sniffles]

I just had a thought: there are three of you who are unhappy. Mr. Control Freak is only one person. Majority rules.

 

[werk]

Tonight I did something I had not in a long time I threw caution to the wind and just did what my character would do without worrying about all the possible horrible consquences.

Yeah, roleplaying is what it's all about. When you start to focus on 'winning' you usually are metagaming/not roleplaying.

 

[The_Gneech]

This thread is making me want to play my fave barbarian character. Unfortunately, said character gives the other GM in my group the willies, resulting in frustration for the both of us. My character wants to get into barroom brawls and steal fabulous treasures, but the GM wants us to quest after the Various MacGuffins Needed to Save the World. (Or, I want to play in Lankhmar, he wants to run Wheel of Time.) Le sigh!

I don't mind a railroad, as long as I'm interested in the destination.

-The Gneech

 

[haakon1]

One of those unwritten rules of you can't take on an evil temple until epic or near epic levels.
:\

Hmmm, I think people worry more about levels in 3e. The progression of power is perhaps steeper, but more than that, the DMing style the DMG encourages is pretty conservative -- throw only what the players can handle at them.

I much prefer the AD&D style of DMing. One room has a kobold, the next has a red dragon may be "illogical", but it's not unfair. In AD&D (and how I DM 3e), the world, like our real world, is not built around you. Yes, there's a CR 12 giant, and the party is only 2nd level, uh-huh. Got a problem with that? You either need to get lucky, negotiate, intimidate, or get away, same as in 1e.

In 1e mode: You've never really lived until you've pissed on an altar of Orcus.

1st time: Orcus gates in. Near TPK. My original character, a 7th level paladin, is killed.

2nd time: Orcus gates in. San Shei, the phenomenally lucky samurai archer, gets 4 chained crits in a row, using our house rule to keep rolling to double again for 20's -- that's right, natch 20, natch 20, natch 20, natch 20. That's not enough to kill Orcus, but it's enough to scare him. He gates out. San Shei gains serious honor points, and becomes a folk hero. At 4th level!

Could that sort of thing happen in 3e? Maybe 3e needs "super crit" rules, so that the statistically never-gunna-happen can happen?

 

[haakon1]

Well here goes. You never say anything that is not flattery to anyone in power. Which means you never disagree with them or god forbid come out and and tell them they are wrong.

Hmm, a good DM could have a lot of fun with these rules. In real life, intelligent leaders don't generally like Yes Men, and though in D&D some leaders get the job because of who their father was, most are going to be intelligent and tough minded. So DM might want to have a leader think the PC are liars, and have that bite them somehow. Or reward an NPC with "the courage to speak truth to power".

You never show mercy to an enemy. Even if said enemy is not evil and is nothing more than a hired merc doing his job. Oh no you kill him and take his stuff.

Oh, so easily corrected, in the campaign has any sort of justice system. Whether that initiates a clan feud or a war crimes investigation, it could easily cause trouble. PC's can and do sometimes get arrested for crimes in my campaign . . . woe to the party that kills the baron's nephew who was a good kid "joyriding" with the bandits . . .

Sorcerers must only take powerful spells and be all about blasting everything or they have no place in the game.

Useless characters annoy me, but there's more than one way to be useful.

Clerics can never refuse to heal a party member even if that party member has totaaly offended the cleric and his god.

IN CHARACTER, I'd give a cleric a lot of static for not healing people. Theology disputes belong after the fight, not during it. If the cleric and the thief have irreconcilable differences, one will leave the party after the fight -- but the cleric has no right to get the party killed. My paladin faced that same issue, and decided his friends and the mission were more important than his disagreement with the thief's lack of morals.

It is bad to ever take the side of an NPC over a PC no matter the circumstances.

But in MOST circumstances, I think the party ought to stay together. Like the British Prime Minister's cabinet with collective responsibility, or the Russian Communist theory of "democratic centralism", everybody should have a say in making a decision, but once it's made, the honorable thing is to support it (even if you privately disagree) or quit. The party is like a rifle squad or a street gang or political cabinet -- you cover your mate's back, whether you personally like him or not, because if we don't hang together, we'll surely hang separately. That's more about being lawful than about being a power gamer.