[FR] Do you use the Realms cosmology?

[Psion]

In 3e, Sehanine Moonbow also appears in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer.

Did not know that. Since Greyhawk is supposedly = core, that sort of puts the lie to MotP, no?

In 2e, the whole pantheons were in the Planescape book On Hallowed Ground.

Indeed it was. But I wasn't talking about 2e. It was in 3e that FR seemed to gobble up a bunch of core goodies. That was my point. I want core 3e support for things that were used in my game before 3e, and resented having to buy products with lots of FR stuff that I would never use to get it.

 

[seankreynolds]

These deities only appear in FR products.

Actually, they appeared in the 1E Unearthed Arcana, a core product.

As of the Manual of the Planes and DDG, the core only had the pantheon heads, and some prattle about powerful heroes.

Actually, Moradin's entry in the 1E DDG specifically mentions Clanggedin, Dumathoin, and Abbathor and their general portfolios (battle, etc.). Corellon's entry mentions Rillifane Rallathil, Labelas Enoreth, and Hanali Celanil and their general portfolios.

 

[Shade]

Races of Faerun
FR Players Guide
Underdark
and to a lesser extent, Faiths and Pantheons (Sean just pointed out there was some pretty important drow stuff in there I overlooked )

Don't forget Serpent Kingdoms, the definitive 3x book on yuan-ti.

And, to a lesser degree, Lost Empires, which has the 3x stats for 14 monsters and 3 templates (including some pre-FR critters like the giant arachnids).

 

[Psion]

Actually, they appeared in the 1E Unearthed Arcana, a core product.

Actually, Moradin's entry in the 1E DDG specifically mentions Clanggedin, Dumathoin, and Abbathor and their general portfolios (battle, etc.). Corellon's entry mentions Rillifane Rallathil, Labelas Enoreth, and Hanali Celanil and their general portfolios.

Okay, that's two people who totally missed the point.

Those are pre-3e products.

I was using those deities in my game because they were in core products before 3e.

But in 3e, those deities (their statistics and descriptions) only appear in FR products (prior to the later races books, which are to me a happy reversal of policy.)

Was my statement really that confusing? Didn't the context of referring to Diaglo's statements about "stolen deities" make it obvious I was referring to 3e products? (And if not that, my repeated references on these boards to my 1e and 2e games should have made it pretty clear that this is not a mistake I would make, I would hope.)

 

[Psion]

Don't forget Serpent Kingdoms, the definitive 3x book on yuan-ti.

And, to a lesser degree, Lost Empires, which has the 3x stats for 14 monsters and 3 templates (including some pre-FR critters like the giant arachnids).

I did buy serpent kingdoms for the yuan-ti stuff. But thought that might be pusing it, since it is pretty fluffy, and yuan-ti themselves are in the core books. Unlike, say, Abishai.

Having monsters itself does not bug me. Are there any statistics in lost empieres for creatures that were core pre-3e? Still, it sounds pretty FR specific.

 

[Shade]

I did buy serpent kingdoms for the yuan-ti stuff. But thought that might be pusing it, since it is pretty fluffy, and yuan-ti themselves are in the core books. Unlike, say, Abishai.

Yeah, but it is the only official book with stats for the amphisbaena, ceratosaur, pteranadon, stegosaurus, jaculi, lizard king, and muckdweller, all from the non-FR ol' days.

Having monsters itself does not bug me. Are there any statistics in lost empieres for creatures that were core pre-3e? Still, it sounds pretty FR specific.

You're right. Looking at it again, its mostly FR-specific conversions from past editions, with the exception of the giant whip scorpion, giant whip spider, and giant sun spider.

 

[Shemeska]

Also interesting that although the votes are very slightly in favor of the FR cosmology, the replies most certainly are not!

I'd hazard a guess that it's also an artifact of what question is being asked as well. Compare the current poll results with the old one, and look at how the question was phrased then as opposed to now.

I'd take the bet that many of the people voting 'FR cosmology only' are a heck of a lot less attached to it, and might not even use the planes when they play FR, or are just picking 'FR cosmology' with the sense that it's default (though the Great Wheel was the FR cosmology, so I find the terms used in the poll a bit off. I'd have called it '3e FR cosmology' rather than just 'FR cosmology' which implies something distinct, unique, and with some larger sense of legitimacy).

I'd be curious to see the poll redone with the following options:

1) I use the Great Wheel, and I have/do use the planes actively
2) I use the 3e FR cosmology, and I have/do use the planes actively
3) I use the Great Wheel, but I stay focused on the prime
4) I use the 3e FR cosmology, but I stay focused on the prime


The people voting 'Great Wheel' seem to be a heck of a lot more attached to it than people voting 3e FR cosmology, probably because they're the ones who by and large are actively using the planes, nut just accepting it without argument because it's not something that comes into play in their games.

 

[Desdichado]

I'd take the bet that many of the people voting 'FR cosmology only' are a heck of a lot less attached to it, and might not even use the planes when they play FR, or are just picking 'FR cosmology' with the sense that it's default (though the Great Wheel was the FR cosmology, so I find the terms used in the poll a bit off. I'd have called it '3e FR cosmology' rather than just 'FR cosmology' which implies something distinct, unique, and with some larger sense of legitimacy).

That's probably true (your first clause anyway--I find the idea that the 3e FR cosmology isn't "legitimate" to be absurd given it's prominent place in the campaign setting book.)

I'd be curious to see the poll redone with the following options:

1) I use the Great Wheel, and I have/do use the planes actively
2) I use the 3e FR cosmology, and I have/do use the planes actively
3) I use the Great Wheel, but I stay focused on the prime
4) I use the 3e FR cosmology, but I stay focused on the prime


The people voting 'Great Wheel' seem to be a heck of a lot more attached to it than people voting 3e FR cosmology, probably because they're the ones who by and large are actively using the planes, nut just accepting it without argument because it's not something that comes into play in their games.

Again, I probably agree. Folks who want FR + Great Wheel are mostly folks who are more attached to Great Wheel than they are to FR, IMO. But hey, why not do that poll? I think it's significantly different from the one here.

 

[Shade]

I wish it were possible to modify the poll questions after it has begun. I probably should have worded it better.

Yeah, why not start another poll, Shemeska?

 

[diaglo]

Was my statement really that confusing?

not to me. i understood what you meant and agreed with you.