France Releases Classified UFO Files

[GregH]

My take on all this is the following:
4 - My personal conclusions - Becuase it makes us feel better. If an alien culture can eventually overcome its differences and unite on a global scale to achieve interstellar travel and breaks the laws of physics in the process, then we should, theoretically, be able to do likewise. I hate to go 'Star Trek' on everyone but in the original series it was only AFTER the world united in one government that real space travel was achieved. A world economy focused on singular goals with nearly unlimited resources made that 'trek' possible.

And this is exactly what I think the reason why people believe in UFOs. Not because of the evidence (there really isn't any, regardless of what Stanton Friedman says). But because it makes people feel good about life to believe in this.

I agree that with all the number of stars and planets out there, that it seems almost impossible to think there is no other intelligent life out there. But physics rains on the parade. Its like we live on an island in an ocean full of islands, but for some reason we can't make boats that will float. So no matter how many other people there are on other islands, we just can't get to them.

Greg

 

[GregH]

Ugh, the Drake Equation. I had to do a debate in high school for a science class, and the basis of the debate was the Drake Equation, and the teacher wouldn't let me argue that the Drake "Equation" is nothing more than a load of crap. Some of it is logical, but most of it is complete assumption, and not worth being called an equation. Hypothesis maybe, but equation no.

Well, technically it is an equation. It has mathematical properties (multiplication), and two sides of an equals sign. But that's semantics.

Absolutely the contents of the Drake equation are, in some cases, purely speculative. Who knows how many years an intelligent society will last before it blows itself up? We only know of one species at that level and we are going on 70 years and counting (if we start in '36 the first TV broadcast of the Berlin olympics). It's interpreting it, that's the problem. There is no known "right" answer to the Drake equation.

But it's a good tool for a "what if" type of scenario, when we have no definitive data. I tend to think that low results of the Drake equation are valid, primarily because of Fermi's Paradox (I linked it earlier in thread). We are, by all measures, a very young planet circling a very young star. If life is prevalent, then there has been ample time before us, for intelligent species to have evolved and taken to the stars. (Millions, bordering on billions of years, actually.) But then we should have been overrun by the Vogons a long time ago. But we haven't. That makes me think we're alone, at least in this corner of the galaxy.

Greg

 

[Chimera]

But then we should have been overrun by the Vogons a long time ago. But we haven't. That makes me think we're alone, at least in this corner of the galaxy.

Why would they bother? What do we have to offer?

Any resource that any advanced technical society might need, short of food stuffs, is available in space, asteroids and so forth on much easier terms that obviate the need for stealing them from habitable worlds.

Slaves? If your tech is advanced enough to build star ships, you've eliminated the hard labor issues that require slaves. Economically, it would be absurd.

Trade? For what??? The only thing we have to offer are ideas and life forms. Both could be gained without contact.

I have always hated the absurd idea that the Aliens would show up and just freely give us all manner of technology. In exchange for what? Imagine that 90%+ of our knowledge and technology is obsolete overnight. The result would be Chaos: Political, Cultural, Religious, Economic.

So you wait.

 

[Chimera]

Unfortunately, it's those drunken pickup-truck drivers that get all the press.

Its not the "plying the stars... and keeping ones presence hidden" that bothers me. I can understand that (although I still think we will get to insterstellar space without worrying about inventing a cloaking device first). Its the "abducting people and cattle and doing odd, nonsensical medical experiments on them". I have watched my share of UFO "documentaries" in my day (it's one of my guilty pleasures) and the two are not mutually exclusive. The UFO community today insists that not only are UFOs visiting us, but they are conducting all manner of silliness. It goes hand-in-hand.

The easy answer is that their drunken pickup-truck drivers are messing with our drunken pickup-truck drivers.

"Hey Clydezort, let's roll on over to Earth, abduct some yahoo from the middle of nowhere and shove a probe up his anus! That'll be a hoot!"

 

[GregH]

Why would they bother? What do we have to offer?

For the exact same reason we have spread out as far as we can on Earth (and above!). For the space, for the resources, and for the scientific exploration.

Greg

 

[Pbartender]

And that's basically why I have a problem with the whole UFO community. It's all "explained" through speculation.

Funny, that's why a lot of people have problems with the whole RPG community as well...

It's hobby, of sorts. Some people like speculating. It's as much of a philosophical mental exercise as anything else.

On that note, there's another reason that the speculation isn't really so silly. It serves as a means for us to determine the most likely ways to accomplish the same feat (traveling to the stars). If we speculate on the most likely ways for aliens to do it, then can get a good idea of what might work for us as well. Then, we can focus our research toward that goal, should we ever choose to.

If no one ever speculated about anything, we'd still be living in caves.

 

[jaerdaph]

The easy answer is that their drunken pickup-truck drivers are messing with our drunken pickup-truck drivers.

"Hey Clydezort, let's roll on over to Earth, abduct some yahoo from the middle of nowhere and shove a probe up his anus! That'll be a hoot!"

ROTFLMAO!

We have a winner.

 

[Pbartender]

The easy answer is that their drunken pickup-truck drivers are messing with our drunken pickup-truck drivers.

"Hey Clydezort, let's roll on over to Earth, abduct some yahoo from the middle of nowhere and shove a probe up his anus! That'll be a hoot!"

It's like the alien UFO version of cow tipping.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

The site loads for me. It's in French.

 

[GregH]

It's hobby, of sorts. Some people like speculating. It's as much of a philosophical mental exercise as anything else

It's a little more than a hobby to some. I direct you to this page on Wikipedia. Specifically, read under UFO/Research and /Theory.

And he more than speculates. To him, its real.

Greg