FRCS Verisimilitude: Cultural Analogs?

[BOZ]

for those with a copy of the Dragon Magazine archives CD-rom, there was once a full-page letter written by someone who had studied all the regions of the FR. don't have access to it at the moment, or i would post it myself.

 

[Nyaricus]

for those with a copy of the Dragon Magazine archives CD-rom, there was once a full-page letter written by someone who had studied all the regions of the FR. don't have access to it at the moment, or i would post it myself.

Could you do so later, BOZ? I'd love you forever!

 

[BOZ]

could be awhile - my computer's power supply is dead, and i don't have the cash to buy a new one.

 

[ruleslawyer]

ruleslawyer, I'm surprised you left the Moonshae Isles off your list, which are pretty clearly Irish-insipred.

I left those off because the OP already mentioned them in a thread right above this one.

'd quibble with ruleslawyer in that the Realms are more swords and sorcery than high fantasy.

Quibblin' right back at'cha!

IMHO, there are too many high-fantasy elements in the Realms (Cormyr, Silverymoon, Nimbral, the legacies of Netheril and Myth Drannor, the Seven Sisters, the Magister, the Harpers, etc etc) for it to be anything but "high fantasy." Also, the Realms incorporates a writing style and elements from Moorcock, Tolkien, Guy Gavriel Kay, David Eddings, and so on, all of who are clearly in the "high fantasy" camp, as well as from Leiber (who's really the only one of Ed's writing inspirations that I can see as being straight up S&S).

 

[3catcircus]

Most FR regions are written to be purposely NOT analogs of historical civilizations, but rather to create an overall high-fantasy feel. Mulhorand, Unther, and Chessenta are the civilizations with the most obviously real-world analogues, followed by Calimshan (although I get the feeling that Calimshan was supposed to resemble a fantasy Koth or Zamora rather than a historical Arabia). Of course, one could attempt to establish closer RW parallels, or (better still!) draw on RW sources to flesh out FR regions. I'd suggest the following:

Cold Lands/Moonsea: 8th-17th century Russia and the Baltic States
The North: A cross between the Canadian frontier/Wild West (the interior) and 9th-12th century Scandinavia (Luskan, Ruathym, etc.)
The Western Heartlands: More Wild West
Amn: Medieval/Renaissance Italy
Tethyr: Medieval France
Calimshan: Medieval North Africa/the Arabian Peninsula
The Dalelands: late-medieval Switzerland or southern Germany
Cormyr: Arthurian England
Thay: early-medieval Byzantium
Mulhorand: ancient Egypt
Unther: ancient Sumer or Babylonia
Chessenta: classical Greece
The Vilhon Reach: Blend elements of Hellenistic Greece/pre-Roman Italy/"dark ages" Italy

Still, I really think that historical analogues are a poor way to go; it seems a much better idea to develop two or three key signifiers for the place (or people from it) and run with that. David Eddings' Belgariad has some nice illustrations of how to do that without getting too fancy (while opinions may be mixed on how good those books are as fantasy literature, IMHO they provide the right level of description and ease of "hooks" for a game).

Incidentally, I think that a number of the "analogues" in the above-linked thread are terrible; how are the Nars more Eastern European than, say, Plains Sioux or Mongol? How are the Lantanna (a race of gadgeteers and seafaring merchants from a subtropical island) like Germans?

The only changes I'd make are to Amn, Tethyr & Calimshan. I get the sense that Amn is really like Moorish Spain, with Calimshan more like Persia than Arabia. Tethyr, I get the feel of it being more like another medieval Spanish state.

 

[Nyaricus]

could be awhile - my computer's power supply is dead, and i don't have the cash to buy a new one.

ouch dude, but many thanks for whatever you can do and when you can do it

 

[Faraer]

Quibblin' right back at'cha!

IMHO, there are too many high-fantasy elements in the Realms (Cormyr, Silverymoon, Nimbral, the legacies of Netheril and Myth Drannor, the Seven Sisters, the Magister, the Harpers, etc etc) for it to be anything but "high fantasy." Also, the Realms incorporates a writing style and elements from Moorcock, Tolkien, Guy Gavriel Kay, David Eddings, and so on, all of who are clearly in the "high fantasy" camp, as well as from Leiber (who's really the only one of Ed's writing inspirations that I can see as being straight up S&S).

It's definitely a mix: itinerant, thrilling, roistering tales of adventure (the Venturers, the Knights, Mirt and Durnan); but also epic history and elegiac beauty, but then again not weighty elevated-tone quests to save the world. The Realms has both subgenres' attitudes to magic: Mystra, but also the tendency of wizards in practice to use the Art for selfish, manipulative dominance (that conflict's on the cover of Swords of Eveningstar!). And neither: Ed doesn't have the pessimism at the base of much s&s or the religious attitude behind good hf (or the bogus religiosity of the bad). If I stress the s&s aspects, it's because I see the Realms painted as hf too often out of assumptions about things like magic level rather than really engaging with it and its influences (which include plenty of s&s beyond Leiber, including Moorcock, as well as stuff like P.G. Wodehouse).

 

[ruleslawyer]

The only changes I'd make are to Amn, Tethyr & Calimshan. I get the sense that Amn is really like Moorish Spain, with Calimshan more like Persia than Arabia. Tethyr, I get the feel of it being more like another medieval Spanish state.

I'm afraid I must disagree, for the following reasons:

1) Amn: Mercantilist, oligarchal, ruled by shadowy figures who govern through financial manipulation and internecine assassinations. Not much like medieval Moorish Spain, which was a vassal state of various Muslim North African rulers governed by a reasonably strong central authority (and not nearly as money-grubbing as Amn, even if it was cosmopolitan in a similar way). I still think 13th-century Italy is a better fit.

2) Calimshan: No royalty; strong desert element; genies and similar creatures. Much more Arabian than Persian.

3) Tethyr: Any medieval kingdom will do, IMHO. I picked France for the presence of powerful dukes, counts, and barons, coupled with revolution.

 

[ruleslawyer]

It's definitely a mix: itinerant, thrilling, roistering tales of adventure (the Venturers, the Knights, Mirt and Durnan); but also epic history and elegiac beauty, but then again not weighty elevated-tone quests to save the world.

Sure; I think it's hard for a D&D setting to be really "big" and durable without incorporating both low and high fantasy elements and attitudes. I'd disagree about the "weighty elevated-tone quests to save the world," though; a lot of the stuff surrounding the Harpstars War, the phaerimm, and a bunch of the material in Dwarves Deep is all about big, weighty, questing.