free spells from level up even after death?
- Thread starter Kershek
- Start date
My "understanding" notes thingy is an interpretation concept, not a rule.
As a rule, to keep this balanced, the guy has to lose it's spells. There's no other way. Treat it "in-game" anyway you want to treat it, but the guy has to lose two spells.
In my example, the wizard still understands the spell, he just does't understand the way he wrote it before he died. If he found a scroll, he could scribe it in his spellbook and still understand the spells, but from a balance point of view, he has to lose two spells.
As a rule, to keep this balanced, the guy has to lose it's spells. There's no other way. Treat it "in-game" anyway you want to treat it, but the guy has to lose two spells.
In my example, the wizard still understands the spell, he just does't understand the way he wrote it before he died. If he found a scroll, he could scribe it in his spellbook and still understand the spells, but from a balance point of view, he has to lose two spells.
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Thanee
First Post
If he loses a level and regains it via Restoration, then he should not get the freebie spells (or any similar perks), because he did not gain the level.
In the case you mentioned, he died and lost a level. Later he gained a new level, just like any other level he had gained. Well, of course does he get the freebie spells, it's a new wizard level!
He is now a Wizard 6 / Fighter 2-1=1. Just because he decided not to gain another Fighter level to compensate for the loss, doesn't mean he should be penalized for doing so!
And besides, the freebie spells are meant to cover research done while leveling (and there is no requirement about the actual time that has to be spent, it could range from hours to years). He spent the time (from his death until his level up) to do so and so he should get them!
Bye
Thanee
In the case you mentioned, he died and lost a level. Later he gained a new level, just like any other level he had gained. Well, of course does he get the freebie spells, it's a new wizard level!
He is now a Wizard 6 / Fighter 2-1=1. Just because he decided not to gain another Fighter level to compensate for the loss, doesn't mean he should be penalized for doing so!
And besides, the freebie spells are meant to cover research done while leveling (and there is no requirement about the actual time that has to be spent, it could range from hours to years). He spent the time (from his death until his level up) to do so and so he should get them!
Bye
Thanee
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Voadam
Legend
Bastoche said:
From a rules perspective I don't remember any rule stating wizards lose knowledge of spells from level loss. They certainly are not magically wiped from the spell book due to death or resurrection.
As a balance issue, I disagree Bastoche. He has lost a level, he is now a level behind his compatriots, and is less powerful, in balance, than them. He is not compared to newly created characters of his current level but to his party and the challenges they are facing. He will still most likely have items valued for his old level so he will be unbalanced that way, his two chosen spells freely written will not be that big an issue.
Besides, in your suggested house rule, his spell book has two spells worth of pages he can't use so he comes out slightly worse than a starting character of his level.
Lucius Foxhound
First Post
We had this happen in our campaign as well. It's a tough call ... but there's nothing in the rules about losing spells.
Taking some stuff from what others wrote, here's how I'd do it:
The Wizard gets two new spells. But he loses the ability to read the spells he'd previously scribed in his spell book. What he can do is try and relearn the two original spells (see "Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook" in PHB) and then pay the cost and time requirements to rescribe them. However, I'd give him a bonus on the spellcraft check to learn the spell since he did write it originally.
I think that's pretty fair.
Taking some stuff from what others wrote, here's how I'd do it:
The Wizard gets two new spells. But he loses the ability to read the spells he'd previously scribed in his spell book. What he can do is try and relearn the two original spells (see "Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook" in PHB) and then pay the cost and time requirements to rescribe them. However, I'd give him a bonus on the spellcraft check to learn the spell since he did write it originally.
I think that's pretty fair.
Thanee
First Post
Why should he lose any spells? They are written in his book, he can easily decipher and understand them (and obviously doesn't have to write them into his spellbook again, as they are already there). He can have an unlimited amount anyways.
Besides, he lost a Fighter level, not a Wizard level.
Bye
Thanee
Besides, he lost a Fighter level, not a Wizard level.
Bye
Thanee
Jondor_Battlehammer
First Post
Some very convoluted "solutions". There should be no way to use dying to get ahead, so this is a good question.
I do belive you lose your highest levels first.
From a rules perspective, if he lost a level of Wizard, his next level he should have to take as Wizard again, thus gaining no additional spells as he already has them. He would not be gaining a level, but restoring an old one. I might let him get those extra spells if there was a great deal of time between regaining that charachter level, but that would be an exception. Say if he dies and gets Ressed at a point I had intended on giving the players a year or so of off time in game.
You could also allow him to advance in a different direction than he had intended. Perhaps his brush with death in some way turned him off of the path of magic. He could now see how much he would have to give up in order to become even moderatley proficient in it. So long as the player came up with a decent, in-charachter reason, I would let him take that lost level in Fighter without penalty to spells known.
The ONLY way I would force some one to "forget" spells previously learned is if they lost ALL caster levels. Note that I said learned, not able to cast. The hapless Wizard who drops to 4th level can still read the Fireball inscribed in his book, he simply no longer has the power to cast it.
This could technically lead to a character that has a couple of more spells than he should. So long as there was no abuse, I do not see that as unbalancing.
I do belive you lose your highest levels first.
From a rules perspective, if he lost a level of Wizard, his next level he should have to take as Wizard again, thus gaining no additional spells as he already has them. He would not be gaining a level, but restoring an old one. I might let him get those extra spells if there was a great deal of time between regaining that charachter level, but that would be an exception. Say if he dies and gets Ressed at a point I had intended on giving the players a year or so of off time in game.
You could also allow him to advance in a different direction than he had intended. Perhaps his brush with death in some way turned him off of the path of magic. He could now see how much he would have to give up in order to become even moderatley proficient in it. So long as the player came up with a decent, in-charachter reason, I would let him take that lost level in Fighter without penalty to spells known.
The ONLY way I would force some one to "forget" spells previously learned is if they lost ALL caster levels. Note that I said learned, not able to cast. The hapless Wizard who drops to 4th level can still read the Fireball inscribed in his book, he simply no longer has the power to cast it.
This could technically lead to a character that has a couple of more spells than he should. So long as there was no abuse, I do not see that as unbalancing.
Thanee
First Post
But he is gaining a new level.
He is not just set to his old level somehow, he's gaining experience as normal and once he has gained enough for the level up, he will advance to the next level.
Also, it's not that he would gain something, he could otherwise not have... and he paid a hefty price for those 2 spells, really (more than the gold pieces he would need to spend otherwise)!
Bye
Thanee
He is not just set to his old level somehow, he's gaining experience as normal and once he has gained enough for the level up, he will advance to the next level.
Also, it's not that he would gain something, he could otherwise not have... and he paid a hefty price for those 2 spells, really (more than the gold pieces he would need to spend otherwise)!
Bye
Thanee
The losing your highest level was only supposed to be used if you somehow "forgot" what your most recent level advancement was.
I would rule that the wizard gets 2 spells for free every time he gains a wizard level from advancement whether or not he has had that level before. He doesn't forget any spells nor do the pages fall out of his spellbook. If he has the ubiquitous Boccob's book, all his spells are scribed for free so what is the big deal?
I would rule that the wizard gets 2 spells for free every time he gains a wizard level from advancement whether or not he has had that level before. He doesn't forget any spells nor do the pages fall out of his spellbook. If he has the ubiquitous Boccob's book, all his spells are scribed for free so what is the big deal?
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