Freedom Of Movement vs. other spells

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

You genuinely don't know?

Do you actually believe points 1 and 2 are valid?

If so, I'm about to win a whole bunch of rules arguments using #1 ...

 

[mvincent]

I'm about to win a whole bunch of rules arguments using #1 ...

You wouldn't "win" any with just that, but you could use it as a possible premise (because it does happen in the rules), and if many other people had that same conclusion (which has happened with this topic) and/or you could find other supporting information, it could be a valid RAI.

(yes, I realize you were simply being snide/sarcastic, but this still seems like information that would be valuable for you to know)

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

but this still seems like information that would be valuable for you to know)

Well, thank you for making me a better person.

So, I ask again ... Do you actually believe points 1 and 2 are valid?

 

[irdeggman]

Nope because moving slow in difficult terrain IS moving normally. So Freedom of Movement doesn't help there at all. Difficult terrain does not trigger the Travel Domain effect.

Not totally.

Just because you do not have penalties to actions does not mean that you move normally. If your speed is reduced then you are no longer moving normally.

For example in difficult terrain (all quotes are from the SRD):


You can't take a 5 ft step in difficult terrain (your movement is hampered)

You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can’t take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

You can't run in difficult terrain (your movement is hampered)

You can’t run across difficult terrain or if you can’t see where you’re going.

By definition difficult terain is hampered movement.

Hampered Movement: Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement.

Difficult Terrain: Difficult terrain hampers movement. Each square of difficult terrain counts as 2 squares of movement. (Each diagonal move into a difficult terrain square counts as 3 squares.) You can’t run or charge across difficult terrain.

If you occupy squares with different kinds of terrain, you can move only as fast as the most difficult terrain you occupy will allow.

 

[irdeggman]

Let's look at the text of Fredom of Movement spell and Travel domain ability:


From SRD:

Freedom of Movement

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web.

Travel domain

Granted Powers: For a total time per day of 1 round per cleric level you possess, you can act normally regardless of magical effects that impede movement as if you were affected by the spell freedom of movement. This effect occurs automatically as soon as it applies, lasts until it runs out or is no longer needed, and can operate multiple times per day (up to the total daily limit of rounds).

I find it very appropriate to read the text:

"even under the influence of magic"

and

"regardless of magical effects"

As not being all inclusive and as both meaning roughly the same thing.

 

[mvincent]

Do you actually believe points 1 and 2 are valid?

Yes, I find that they have merit (as illustrated by point #3, and by previous discussions on this). Mind you, point #1 wasn't presented as an argument (i.e. evidence) but rather a premise. An unsupported premise might well be right, but I couldn't call it 'valid' (i.e. with merit) without some sort of support.

Also (as mentioned), I don't agree with the interpretation, I merely find that it has merit, and I was helping convey why others (who I find to be reasonable) might interpret it this way.

So although I don't play with that interpretation, if later errata said the domain ability acted like freedom of movement for all purposes, I wouldn't be overly surprised. The ability (and perceived limiter) is not nearly as clear as it should be.

 

[AuraSeer]

Freedom of Movement works against a number of things that are not "magical effects" such as grappling. The travel domain power only works on magical effects, and against those works in the same manner as freedom of movement.

I know that's the technical rule. I don't feel like making that particular fine distinction for this NPC cohort, who is controlled by me and seldom gets involved in combat anyhow.

I had hoped that if I specifically pointed out my DM fiat, declaring that I am making the ability exactly duplicate the spell, people wouldn't get sidetracked into arguing about differences between the two. Clearly I was wrong.

 

[Patlin]

I know that's the technical rule. I don't feel like making that particular fine distinction for this NPC cohort, who is controlled by me and seldom gets involved in combat anyhow.

I had hoped that if I specifically pointed out my DM fiat, declaring that I am making the ability exactly duplicate the spell, people wouldn't get sidetracked into arguing about differences between the two. Clearly I was wrong.

Oops. Yeah, I seem to have triggered a bit of a brawl there, I assure you it was unintentional. I seem to have failed my subtlty check on picking up what the fiat was in regards to. Sorry!

 

[AuraSeer]

It seems you folks generally agree with frankthedm[/i]'s answers. Would someone care to explain the reasoning behind them, please?

For instance it seems pretty clear that forcecage "impedes movement," because it's normally not possible to walk out of the cage if you're stuck inside. And it's unarguably a "magical effect," too, in case that matters.

Ditto if you're attempting to walk forward but there's an antilife shell in your way. That's another magical effect impeding your movement. So what's the justification for not allowing freedom of movement to help?

If the only justification is that it offends your DM judgement, that's fine, I just want to know what page we're on.

Also, wall of thorns has a clause that says: "Creatures with the ability to pass through overgrown areas unhindered can pass through a wall of thorns at normal speed without taking damage." So if the target of FoM can pass through this (magical) overgrown area freely at his normal speed, shouldn't that prevent him from taking damage?

 

[Hypersmurf]

For instance it seems pretty clear that forcecage "impedes movement," because it's normally not possible to walk out of the cage if you're stuck inside. And it's unarguably a "magical effect," too, in case that matters.

Let's say someone has Summoned a Large Earth Elemental, which is standing in a ten foot corridor. You have no ranks in Tumble.

If you have Freedom of Movement active, can you move past the Elemental blocking the corridor without resorting to Bull Rush or Overrun? He is the effect of a magic spell, and his presence prevents your movement through those squares.

What if you are Stunned as the result of a magical effect - for example, Power Word Stun? Is there a difference between "magic that usually impedes movement" and "spells and effects that restrict movement"?

Also, wall of thorns has a clause that says: "Creatures with the ability to pass through overgrown areas unhindered can pass through a wall of thorns at normal speed without taking damage." So if the target of FoM can pass through this (magical) overgrown area freely at his normal speed, shouldn't that prevent him from taking damage?

I agree that a character who has the ability to pass through overgrown areas unhindered should take no damage from Wall of Thorns.

Does Freedom of Movement grant this ability, though? Ignore Wall of Thorns, for the moment, and posit a naturally overgrown area of forest. Freedom of Movement arguably doesn't affect this - it is not a magical effect that impedes movement, a grapple, or underwater.

Compare the druid:
"A druid may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at her normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect her."

The druid certainly has the ability to pass through overgrown areas unhindered. Does she have the ability to pass a Wall of Thorns, though? That seems to fit "thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion", which still affect her, but Wall of Thorns contains the specific clause stating that the ability to pass through overgrown areas unhindered is a protection against Wall of Thorns.

By my reading, Wall of Thorns is an exception to the "magically manipulated" exclusion, so the druid suffers no loss of speed and takes no damage.

The Freedom of Movement character can move through the Wall of Thorns at full speed, but since, as I understand it, he is not a character who has the ability to pass through overgrown areas unhindered - despite being able to move through magical effects unhindered - he takes damage as normal in so doing.

-Hyp.