Frenzied Berserker: should I worry ?

[Ibram]

I played in a game with one once, she nearly killed the entire party after a goblin managed to jab her hard with a spear (the goblin got pasted and she turned on the rest of us).

Despite that I would allow its use IMC, but as long as the other player agreed. Whoever was playing the FB would also have to understand that there would be some RP effects from playing a FB (once word got out people would be afraid of the "daemon-posessed" destroyer).

 

[Stormrunner]

Just ask demiurge sometime for the stories. He turned my FB into a NPC after we decided to retire him, and had the party running halfway across the continent to avoid bumping into him. This was after defeating a few epic NPCs. The FB, as a side note, was only 15th level.

"Groo is coming! Run away!"

Seriously, Groo is practically the archetypical Frenzied Berserker - with low Wisdom. He's dual-wielding and has an animal companion, so there's probably a level or three of ranger in there.

 

[scottdunphy]

The problem is with the character concept, not the class. A CN destroyer is an NPC concept, not a player concept. I played a FB in a campaign of several months and it didn't cause any problems. The concept: Holy Liberator/Frenzied Barbarian - he'd see someone in chains and freak out. His Holy Liberator levels and Wisdom gave him the high Will Save to control the Frenzy (most of the time).

The other factor that balances the class is that an FB can't usually control when he starts a Frenzy. If the bad guys hit him from range with Fireball, he's not likely to make the resulting Will Save (DC = 10 plus damage taken) and will have to charge recklessly across the battlefield (at a lower AC). Forget tactics with an FB.

Yet another disadvantage is the fatigued/exhausted state at the end of the Frenzy/Frenzied-Rage. At higher levels combats can often exceed the length of the Frenzy, especially if the badguys get reinforced during the combat.

And the Deathless Frenzy isn't an entirely an advantage. Before you have it, the FB can be dropped to -2 (for example) and fall unconsious. Likely the party healer will get there in time to stabilize him. With Deathless Frenzy, you can't retreat and you won't fall down - guaranteed death without a high-level healer standing next to you (likely a dangerous place to be if the FB is past -10).

Yes, the PrC is challenging, but I don't believe it is broken. As with any PrC, the DM must determine if they want to allow it for a host of reasons. PrCs define and shape the campaign world and ALL of them should be carefully considered.

 

[Gort]

Yeah, I wouldn't allow it in my campaign. If a PC is so much hassle that the entire tactics of the party have to revolve around him, let alone MY encounters all have to be set up with him specifically in mind, it's just not worth it.

The archetype is already covered by the barbarian anyway, the frenzied berserker just takes it to broken-ness. (hell, there's enough people who think barbarian+two handed sword+power attack is broken on its own!)

 

[Sejs]

And thus do we come to the meat of the discussion. What causes you to believe that a frenzied berserker is not so broken as to cause major problems for an ongoing campaign?

Nothing, actually. I firmly believe that a frenzied berzerker can and will cause major problems in an ongoing campaign. I have experienced this fact, and because of that I don't allow FBs in games I run. What it comes down to is that I think it's doable to have a campaign that has an FB, but it's really not worth all the extra effort it requires to do so.

Sorry for the delay in response - had to sleep.

 

[hong]

Sorry for the delay in response - had to sleep.

Wimp!


Hong "does his best work at 2 in the morning" Ooi

 

[Terwox]

Ask the other players what they think about it.
I figure it fits the tone of your game, you didn't bring up that it didn't -- a frenzied berserker is not a good class for, say, an urban environment, or anything that suggests a bar room brawl... chuckle...
But yeah. The main problem appears to be how it affects the other players. Would your other players enjoy this concept, or not?
Further, a guy can certainly play a frenized killer with just the barbarian class as chaotic neutral, I've used those as PCs before and been quite happy with it. (As long as they did something besides, you know, kill things. And "other things" does not include "ok, so i mutilate the bodies too.")
I'd give it a "maybe." Maybe run the players through a test combat with some quick characters -- something like that "lucky kobold" jab, where the party has to work with... and sometimes against the crazed machine they have.
Could be really fun, especially if the party worked to "cure" the guy, although... I'm really doubting that's what he's going for.
Personally I wouldn't allow it, intraparty conflict is left well alone in my games. It's fun, but I'm very bad at handling it as a DM so I avoid it, so I'd avoid this class. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I'd throw the question to the other players. "Do you characters want to travel with a crazy, murderous, unstoppable, don't-know-friend-from-foe hurt-machine?" If they agree and understand the consequences of their actions, then, hey, whatever floats their boat.

I played with a FB once. He killed my char. He got later imprisoned for going off on some city guard. We let him rot in prison, and my character in that game would never ever adventure with someone who could get out of control like that.

AR

 

[shilsen]

Another vote for asking the other players. In-character, I think I've played one PC at most who would be willing to adventure with a FB. Out-of-character, hell no!

 

[I'm A Banana]

I've never had a problem. I mean, lycanthropy, items that change your alignment, domination, confusion....D&D is *rife* with ways to turn one party member against the other, and this isn't really any riskier than meeting an enchanter or bard and being forced to fight each other instead of him.

The PrC description itself says: "The frenzied berserker's path is unsuited for most adventurers -- a fact for which the peace-lovers of the world can be thankful."

But aside from that, it really isn't a huge issue. The fact that they take nonlethal damage every round they're in it almost mandates that they have the Deathless Frenzy ability. It can be foiled with relatively simple tactics (illusions, enchantments, hold person, anything with a good armor class...). It is something that a party should be aware of, but death shouldn't be something an FB is ever really affraid of. Do they rock? Absolutely. But they're not overpowered...like the Warforged, they're a mechanic of extremes: lots of power balanced by near-crippling weakness. And because of that, of course they won't be suited for every campaign (when the weakness really isn't a weakness, or when the power would be useless...imagine an FB in a social campaign!).

Even given that, it's a PrC designed for NPC's first. The barbarian leaders of savage tribes that send everyone into a frenzy. It's not too powerful, but of course it's not going to be apt for every campaign.