Frenzied Berserker: should I worry ?

[Patman21967]

Sorry about this hijacking for a mini-rant:

This is one of the things I have about our current edition of DnD...these class chains that make no sense...Rogue/Paladin/Templar/FB...people seem to chain together classes willy nilly...geez...no offense, I even read somewhere about someone wanting a Paladin/Rouge/Assassain PrC....Then people use all kinds of monsters too...What ever happened to requiring a character to actuall experience something before he can take a class in it...in game....Like letting a character take a dragonslayer PrC without ever seeing a Dragon...

Enough...the point here is it all falls onto the GM...I have played for and learned from some of the best GMs...I would never let a PC acquire a class without a reacson for it...No offense again to whomever it was with these 2, but I would love to hear a backstory why a Kensai ( a highly dedicated, focused weapon master ) would become a frenzied Berserker...and not lose all benefits of being a Kensai....same with the Holy Liberator...just seeing someone in chains would never be enough to justify the FB.you could just roleplay that...he freaks out and goes nuts....but to give that PrC for that reason just doesn't fit....most, not all, do this for min/max munchkinizing of characters...Like I said...there may be real reasons....but that is what I hate about 3.0/3.5 it is drastically leading us away from Role-playing....Geez...not to sound like Daiglo...I've been gaming since 78...and if played ( what i consider ) correctly, it can be alot of fun, but there is the capability, if you let players create characters unchecked, they can ruin the game...it becomes like playing nuclear escalation...That is fostering alot of the player vs. GM sentiment I read on these boards, with GM's constantly starting threads like " help, my player did this or that, what can I do " In the campaign I am starting next Sunday, I told the players that any feats or spells taken from out of non-core books, had to be OK'd, because there are campaign wreckers....for example...my new game is very heavily themed on undead...well someone told be about a spell that surrounds the cleric with an aura of holiness that lasts a day per level, and damages any undead within 120 feet....Why base a campaign around undead, if I'm going to allow a spell that does that? I just wasted all my time creating a world, history, NPC's, BBEG's, stories, adventures, quests for each character, plotlines, encounter charts, etc...while juggling work, girlfriend, parents, life...to have 1 spell be ruinous to that....

JUST SAY NO!!!!

sorry guys....lambaste me now....let me have it...don't sugar coat it....

 

[nick2]

I played a frenzied berzerker in one campaign, and he came to become one of my favorite characters. A DC20 will save isn't too high, if you are able to get a wisdom boost, or save booster. Think I only ever attacked a party member once, and managed to get criticals with both attacks
These characters do tend to add some excitement to the campaign, when you're worried about whether or not you will attack your own party. Just give him some room to fight, and you don't have a lot to worry about, well, other than one attack a round.
I think the worst part of the character that you mentioned is the chaotic neutral alignment. Think that would be more of a game wrecker than the FB class.

 

[Patman21967]

An example of what I mean...a frenzied berserker would WANT to go berserk...increasing his will save would never even occur to him...he would concern himself with str dex and con stuff...

 

[The_Gneech]

HULK SMASH!!!

Um ... no, thank you so much for your application to the party, but no. Have a nice day.

-The Gneech

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

An example of what I mean...a frenzied berserker would WANT to go berserk...increasing his will save would never even occur to him...he would concern himself with str dex and con stuff...

Not entirely. PC FBs (okay, the Good and most Neutral ones) will most likely realize that slaughtering their friends and random passers-by whenever they fail a Will save is a Bad Thing, and so take precautions to not lose it at the drop of a hat. If they have a low Will save and are Good, they should probably work on their Survival skill, as they need to stay out of town and avoid butchering bystanders.

Brad

 

[Eremite]

This is one of the things I have about our current edition of DnD...these class chains that make no sense... Rogue/Paladin/Templar/FB... people seem to chain together classes willy nilly...geez...no offense, I even read somewhere about someone wanting a Paladin/Rouge (sic) /Assassain (sic) PrC....

This is something that bothers me, too. While I do like the flexibility in character design that is now possible compared to previous editions, the mentality of players seems very much directed to the mechanics of a character rather than the personality/goals/other intangibles of a character.

I don't blame the new edition on this, per se; after all, there have always been munchkins. However, I would like to see WotC put a bit more effort into providing more balanced PrCs etc... than we have seen in recent publications. Then again, that's the subject of several other threads that are floating around at the moment....

I still don't put the FB in this category. However, it certainly is a class that can only be allowed in a group with the greatest of care.

 

[Taneel BrightBlade]

I think it would be fine with 1 or 2 modifications.
A) Change the damage activation from taking damage to something that fits better eg your home was desimated be orc so you now go into an uncontrolable rage when you see an orc
B) make the deathless frenzy a 10th level ability instead of 4th level

 

[Ellie_the_Elf]

I had a FB in my campaign-very briefly..

The player's concept was an extremely dumb barbarian- specifically, he had a wisdom of 6, and played it pretty well. At 6th level, or thereabouts, he took FB.

The first day of being a FB, he turned on the party after taking damage from a trap- they were able to stop him with a hold person Shortly thereafter, he took a hit in the last round of a combat, and turned on his party again. They had no way of stopping him the second time and he took down one PC before being killed by another. The party flatly refused to even think about having him raised. The net result was two dead PCs and three upset players (the one who'd killed him didn't like the fact he'd had to do it becuase he knew the FB's player loved the character). I wasn't happy about the whole mess either because the two dead PCs and the FB-killer (who retired from the group due to his guilt) were all replaced with new characters, and I'd been building the campaign around the group of PCs so I had a lot of changes to make and it took a while for everyone to settle back into things. I honestly think if I'd had a less mature group of players the whole incident might have ended the campaign.

It's now one of the only PrCs that I ban- because of the fact it forces the other players to modify the way they play their own characters, or suffer if they don't.

A modified version might be workable, and it would be a lot easier to deal with if the player took steps to ensure he had a good will save, but personally I wouldn't allow it again.

Leisa.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Well, obviously he was a VERY dumb barbarian, or he wouldn't have taken training that lead to him killing everything in sight. The FB's that survive instead make sure they have a decent Will save!

I second the advice of "be careful," and add in "It's meant as an NPC class, think about the PC's fighting one rather than being one." But it definately has a niche to fill.

It wasn't designed to be used in a party. That wasn't it's goal, and there's no reason it should have to meet that goal.

 

[Romnipotent]

I think it would be fine with 1 or 2 modifications.
A) Change the damage activation from taking damage to something that fits better eg your home was desimated be orc so you now go into an uncontrolable rage when you see an orc
B) make the deathless frenzy a 10th level ability instead of 4th level

to elaborate I would feel a more lycanthropic version of the insta rage ability like 25% of total HP VS Willsave

another one to consider is Deathless Frenzy to your HP in negs... I know this means a LOT for a FB, but without that FB can singlehandedly handle a Tarrasque.
It also gives them a big flop, perhaps a rule where they hit -9 and instantly have to stabilise or die. Who knows what should be done, maybe a little dominate or something...