Frenzied Bezerker BBEG TPK

[Sejs]

Calm emotions and/or stalling for time would be very usefull, especially if you know what you are fighting.

But in this case, useless, because of that beholder and its central eye.

FBs have one weakness - something that pulls them out of their rage, or otherwise messes with their mind. Without exception, every one of those options is magical. Then add in an anti-magic field...

Yeah. Problematic.

 

[Patlin]

But in this case, useless, because of that beholder and its central eye.

Well, useless if you stay in the room...

Seems to me my first priority would be to move! Get into a position where the beholder either 1) can't cover the whole combat area with its gaze, or 2) has to expose itself to attack.

 

[Patlin]

Also, non magical stalling tactics abound... how about pig pile on the berserker? Grapple him for a minute, then he's about done.

 

[chriton227]

The basics: It was a war of attrition. The players had a set amount of hit points vs. the FB who had unlimited hit points. The H-Orc FB was 10th level Barb/FB

Normally a H-Orc Barb/FrB L10 can't get Deathless Frenzy. FrB requires 4 feats to enter, and a straight half-orc barbarian build doesn't get it's 4th feat until 9th level (1st/3rd/6th/9th), leaving only 1 or 2 levels for FrB (depending on whether your DM allows you to use your level gained feat to qualify for a PrC at that level, technically you have to have the feat before you gain the level in the PrC) . Frenzied Berzerkers get Deathless Frenzy at FrB4. It could be done as a Human or by adding a level of Fighter in the mix though.

As far as whether it was unfair, I tend to look at the enemies and the PC builds and see if I can find at least one tactic that would allow the PCs to win with average rolls using their normal abilities; if so, I'm sure my players will be capable of figuring out a way to win (and usually not the way I expect). If it would be extremely close with average rolls or if it looks like they will lose by a small margin with average rolls, I might drop hints in-game to allow them to better prepare (in this case, legends of Crunch the Destroyer being shot repeatedly by a hundred bowmen without even slowing down, or how he must be a diety as mortal weapons cannot kill him and only make him angry or something of the sort). Without knowing the exact PC builds I really can't say if it was fair or not, but if they were doing massive damage to him and he wasn't slowing down, I would expect the party to retreat as they started losing people.

 

[Zamtap]

Ok examples from recent game sessions ... crit with thundering weapon from an 12th level PC FB... 105 pts of damage single hit on the charge full power attack to minimise the possibility of hitting the others PC

oh dear one dead Cheater of Mystra, Luckly the FB Hold Monstered by the wizard and we run 2 clerics so revify was cast (mobile spellcasting is wonderfull)

The previous fight had ended with the FB on -594 he was the only target for 10 cave trolls and they beat the HP out of him... if he failed the first grapple check and got held he won the next and smashed the troll down then did great cleave to the next opponent (the rest of us stayed in an anti-life shell and AOE'd the Trolls down)

Grapple checks don't work... they really don't, calm emotions and hold monster work...sort of

BTW I play the non-Mystran cleric, I prep airwalk but the Wizard has a habit of putting fly into the ring of spell-storing that the FB has. I'm sure my character breathed a sigh of relief when he was told that the FB was not joining the next trip (after his player left for Uni early)

 

[ElectricDragon]

At what number did you figure the encounter level? CR 10 FB + multiple different CR traps + unreachable antimagic spewer/trap mogol (CR?)? Sounds like you overcompensated for the party's successes by building a death trap.
Yeah, running is always an option; but with no clues that monstrous damage will not win the day, the party is going to think, "just hang in there for a few more rounds, we've hit him with our best shots, he's gotta fall soon..." until the TPK happens. You run when your best shots do "nuthin" or when the dice rolls severely favor the other guy. Neither of these things seem to have happened.
How many traps were there? What were their CR's? What was the CR of the beholder? What was the adjusted EL of the beholder in a loft, minus eyes, plus traps? Or more simply, what was the total Encounter Level?

Ciao
Dave

 

[Plane Sailing]

Well, it seems to me that the problem is that you used the utterly stupid frenzied beserker class. Any class (or any monster) that can't be killed by hit point damage just breaks the D&D mould so badly it isn't believable.

Frenzied Beserker gets my vote for the stupidist idea in D&D ever.

If I'd been part of the party who were killed in the TPK I'd be mighty annoyed.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Yup, over the top alright. You put them into a trap with an unkillable rabid wombat and negated the only way to really stop the threat (i.e. magic - that is, if they knew about the threat ahead of time, the only way I'd ever introduce such a monster as a FB). Not a fun end of a campaign. You want everyone to be able to contribute and do things in the last battle.

 

[Garrett843]

Personally I find that the frenzied berserker class is extremely overpowered. I once ran an epic stone giant with barbarian and frenzied berserker and he became almost unkillable as soon as we started the campaign. With just that character and a death knight we alone almost dropped osmodius (sorry if i spelled that wrong) and then after that just the death knight and i dropped the terrasque in effectively 4 rounds when the dm set it at 1500 hp to attempt to slow us down.

 

[Sejs]

Also, non magical stalling tactics abound... how about pig pile on the berserker? Grapple him for a minute, then he's about done.

Easier said that done. Full BAB plus a strength that's usually somewhere in the mid 30s when in full swing means it's a tad difficult to win a grapple check against a FB.

And unless you've got Improved Grapple you're provoking an AoO to do so, which can be tantamount to suicide.