Frenzied Bezerker BBEG TPK

[Votan]

About a week ago I was speaking with a fellow DM about his upcoming Cltuthlu esk’ campaign. He told me his players had pc’s that were very very tough for there level (7th & 8th). They have appropriate magicals for the level, good spell selection and very good melee capability and were basically mowing thru the CR rating modules and campaigns he had them in, sometime half of them taking little to no damage at all. He stressed to me that he wanted to have a BBEG at the end of his current campaign that would really challenge his players.

Well in hindsight he says asking me to design the last room of the campaign was a mistake and he feels terrible over the TPK as do the players who were angry frustrated and ultimately with all dead pc’s.

Large room with a 15’ loft at far end and prison cages as he explained to me all over the floor. Up on this loft he originally had an Orc a bugbear and something else. I changed it to an old venerable Beholder with only his main eye working and 1 eye stalk with limited Telekinesis. I put a Frenzied Bezerker to melee the pc’s below. The cages were just traps the Beholder would try to trigger with his TK. I removed all other monsters just left a couple of them with spikes.

The party combated this Bezerker who absolutely cleaned their clock. The party was hitting him over and over until they all fell TPK.

was I over the top?

Malum

A fast enemy who can't be killed by hit point damage and who moves faster than the party in a room with an anti-magic field and traps. If the players were warned in advance they might have been able to run for their lives or focus missle attacks on the beholder.

A raging FB in frenzy has +10 strength and, as a half Orc at 10th level probably had a base strength of at least 19 and maybve into the 20's plus a BAB 2-3 points highter than the party. Even a grapple could be tough and if he was close quarters combat or if the party members lack improved grapple this is ultra messy.


Disarming won't much help. Nor will most tactics exact will saves or magical attacks.

Traps that can hold party members in places (cages) make it hard to abandon people. Escape from this trap will cost lives. I am not aware of any divination magic that would have told the players what to expect that is available at 8th level -- especially if they lack specific questions.

Disabling the FB with non-lethal damage seems to work but gosh is it a hard tactic.


I think the party composition matters enormously. If they relied on a couple of arcane types for primary ranged attacks this is a much harder encounter. If they lacked a strength based tank to soak up damage while the party got creative it is even harder.

A wizard, a wildshaping druid, a rogue and a cleric would be, for example, a very well balanced party that would be in enormous trouble in this situation. All of their weak points would be maximized and none of their assets available. In particular, the rogue and druid would have a very hard time contributing.

 

[kerbarian]

Large room with a 15’ loft at far end and prison cages as he explained to me all over the floor. Up on this loft he originally had an Orc a bugbear and something else. I changed it to an old venerable Beholder with only his main eye working and 1 eye stalk with limited Telekinesis. I put a Frenzied Bezerker to melee the pc’s below. The cages were just traps the Beholder would try to trigger with his TK. I removed all other monsters just left a couple of them with spikes.

The party combated this Bezerker who absolutely cleaned their clock. The party was hitting him over and over until they all fell TPK.

I agree with the other posters that there's no way the party could have been expected to deal with this without knowing exactly what they were going to face (even then, it would be a tough fight).

However, I was thinking about how to deal with the encounter in general, and I came up with an interesting possibility: Can you cast a Wall of Force to block a Beholder's anti-magic cone? Antimagic Field says that it doesn't dispel anything, it just suppresses the effects of spells, and it doesn't suppress Wall of Force. So I think that you could successfully cast a Wall of Force even standing in the middle of the antimagic cone, and once it was cast, it would block the effect of the cone (as long as you keep it between yourself and the Beholder).

 

[Malum]

It's been a few days and the other players have just learned of my input. They understand but argue not against the encounter just the FB class. The vote is in the FB class dies at -9 + his con bonus in hit points 10th level fighter 16 con would die at -39. I liked their decision and will use it if I ever introduce a FB.

The DM has also eluded to the fact that it is a Cluthlu module (lots of weird stuff) and the pc's are actually under some sort of insanity/influence and the FB was a Phant. Killer. Apparently the next campaign will start with same pc's recovering


It sounds like the DM introduced my 1 paragraph email as the last room and reversed that decision as above.


Malum

 

[Prism]

I'm a little surprised that the party did not try and discover at least some of the details of the final encounter of the campaign - maybe the did and were unsuccessful. Our parties tend to try and do as much divination and information gathering as possible before a 'big' fight unless of course the fight is sprung on us. And if thats the case and the going gets tough we usually retreat if one or two go down so a TPK should be usually avoidable

Like another poster said though, if they players expectations of the campaign are that they can fight it out with the opponents with little preparation and pre knowledge this would have caught them off guard. Again, in our campaigns we assume that most big fights are going to be damn hard and we had better be well prepared to survive

 

[green slime]

Frenzied Berserkers should be beaten, kicked, drugged, mutilated, and dragged out of the game, and banned from ever making any appearance in any shape or form ever again. They are ludicrous. The git who thought this would make a "fine PrC" should have his gonads hammered.

How much critical damage can a FB take? Endless.

Player: I confirmed my threat! Damage from my scythe is (rolls 8d4, +15 (Str bonus *1.5 (two-handed)) *4 (Crit), +20 (PA*2 (two-handed))*4 (Crit) +5 (Magic) + 2d6 (Flaming, Frost) = 187.

DM: His leg flies off and lands in the creek, he still attacks you gnashing with his teeth!

Player: That is the fourth limb I've chopped off! And he's standing in a Blade Barrier, within an Acid Fog!

They should've replaced the pic with one of the Black Knight from the "Holy Grail".

The guy takes so much damage, no two atoms remain together, yet can still fight.

 

[mikebr99]

Frenzied Berserkers should be beaten, kicked, drugged, mutilated, and dragged out of the game, and banned from ever making any appearance in any shape or form ever again. They are ludicrous. The git who thought this would make a "fine PrC" should have his gonads hammered.

How much critical damage can a FB take? Endless.

Player: I confirmed my threat! Damage from my scythe is (rolls 8d4, +15 (Str bonus *1.5 (two-handed)) *4 (Crit), +20 (PA*2 (two-handed))*4 (Crit) +5 (Magic) + 2d6 (Flaming, Frost) = 187.

DM: His leg flies off and lands in the creek, he still attacks you gnashing with his teeth!

Player: That is the fourth limb I've chopped off! And he's standing in a Blade Barrier, within an Acid Fog!

They should've replaced the pic with one of the Black Knight from the "Holy Grail".

The guy takes so much damage, no two atoms remain together, yet can still fight.

It's just a flesh wound!

 

[Malum]

Tell us how you really feel. Don't be shy.

Frenzied Berserkers should be beaten, kicked, drugged, mutilated, and dragged out of the game, and banned from ever making any appearance in any shape or form ever again. They are ludicrous. The git who thought this would make a "fine PrC" should have his gonads hammere

NONE SHALL PASS!!!!

How much critical damage can a FB take? Endless.

Player: I confirmed my threat! Damage from my scythe is (rolls 8d4, +15 (Str bonus *1.5 (two-handed)) *4 (Crit), +20 (PA*2 (two-handed))*4 (Crit) +5 (Magic) + 2d6 (Flaming, Frost) = 187.

DM: His leg flies off and lands in the creek, he still attacks you gnashing with his teeth!

Player: That is the fourth limb I've chopped off! And he's standing in a Blade Barrier, within an Acid Fog!

They should've replaced the pic with one of the Black Knight from the "Holy Grail".

The guy takes so much damage, no two atoms remain together, yet can still fight.

 

[JonnyFive]

one thing that i think keeps getting overlooked here is the use of non-lethal damage. you go unconceous when you have non-lethal damage greater than your current hitpoints right? so if yer a FB sitting at -10 HP and you have been frenzed for say 10 rounds you have 20 non-lethal, you should be out like a light? or am i reading this wrong?

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

Non-lethal damage certainly helps put an FB down but the PCs have to know this and there is no way they are going to try to subdue a raging berserker if it even looks like they are hurting him.

DM: He grunts under the blow, blood pouring from the wound as he brings his sword up and attacks.
PC1: So he's wounded?
DM: Short answer? Yes.
PC2: It's my turn. I hit, 36 points of damage.
DM: He feels it but he's not down.
PC3: Damn! How much does it take?
PC4: Keep calm. We're wounding him. (calculates) He's got to be on his last legs, even with Fast Healing. Right?
DM: He's definitely hurt.
PC4: See?

 

[ThirdWizard]

Non-lethal damage certainly helps put an FB down but the PCs have to know this and there is no way they are going to try to subdue a raging berserker if it even looks like they are hurting him.

Being in a frenzy itself deals non-lethal damage.