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5E Frustrated with 5E magic items

Because +2 armor breaks bonded accuracy. And cloak of invisibility is an at will 2nd lvl spell, that's why. You can't use magic item rarity for anything, as is well described in the document.
No, monsters can deal with +2 armor. Really.

And if you stack it with a +2 shield you end up with a PC that a bit hard to hit for low level monsters. Only if you stack every bonus, then it gets hard to hit, and even then crits and advantage make it imperfect.

And the Cloak of Invisibility is concentration-free greater invisibility with a 2 hours every 12 hours.

It is crazy good.

I mean, I'm not reading everything. I just literally just glanced at a few items, and found every single one of them was worse than the 5e prices.

I mean, maybe they fixed potion of invisibility and a flying broomstick.
 
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Odysseus

Explorer
I'm curious how other people have made the transition from more structured magic item and treasure editions like 3E and 4E over to a looser system like 5E.
So far I haven't settled on an approach.
I've tried finding/giving out a lot less money. Letting them buy whatever using sane magic prices. And I've tried a level tax. And I'm not really satisfied with any of those. So I'm probably headed towards a 3rd ed approach.
 

werecorpse

Explorer
No, monsters can deal with +2 armor. Really.

And if you stack it with a +2 shield you end up with a PC that a bit hard to hit for low level monsters. Only if you stack every bonus, then it gets hard to hit, and even then crits and advantage make it imperfect.

And the Cloak of Invisibility is concentration-free greater invisibility with a 2 hours every 12 hours.

It is crazy good.

I mean, I'm not reading everything. I just literally just glanced at a few items, and found every single one of them was worse than the 5e prices.

I mean, maybe they fixed potion of invisibility and a flying broomstick.
Well that is good. Blackball calculated it as if it was just invisibility (not greater). FWIW I think he has got this wrong. But if you go by it being greater invis I suspect it would be valued at 200,000gp in his values
 

Which is my point. See, the errors in the WotC list -- that flying items are valued seemlying randomly, and that consumables are often over priced -- is something I'm aware of.

That list? It has its own collection of serious problems. I mean, I checked "are shields cheaper than armor? No? Fail". Then I thought "ok, how about cloak of invisibility" and it was massively mispriced.
 

Immoralkickass

Explorer
Hey, I'm actually playing in a 5e Red Hand of Doom. We just finished the first arc.

Our DM allows us to use some homebrew rules to upgrade our weapons and armor at the blacksmith, for a fee of course. That's where most of our gold went.
 

werecorpse

Explorer
The value of an item assumes it is something able to be used effectively I don’t think a +1 shield should be valued at less than +1 armour on all occasions. For example a +1 shield is more valuable than +1 chainmail IMO because it has flexibility in that it can be combined with plate or half plate whereas +1 chainmail is worse AC than non magic full plate.

as I said I think it’s a more useful tool than provided by WOTC but is a decent guide only as haw to price items.
 

Matrix Sorcica

Adventurer
The value of an item assumes it is something able to be used effectively I don’t think a +1 shield should be valued at less than +1 armour on all occasions. For example a +1 shield is more valuable than +1 chainmail IMO because it has flexibility in that it can be combined with plate or half plate whereas +1 chainmail is worse AC than non magic full plate.

as I said I think it’s a more useful tool than provided by WOTC but is a decent guide only as haw to price items.
Exactly. The only +1 armor that is under consideration is the top armors for light, medium and heavy armor. The rest shouldn't really cost more than a "normal, but the same AC" armor. The shield allows stacking, which is why is it rated the same as the armor. Additionally, the pricing assumes that items will be used at max effectiveness - which (of course) means, that a shield is not worth less because it requires proficiency - you based it on a user, that can take full advantage. Just like scrolls, staves, Holy Avengers and all the other magic items in the book. So that's kind of a strawman.

And yes, Cloak of Invisivility should have been based on a 4th lvl spell, which would put its price at 200.000.
 

Personally, when it comes to magic arms and armor, I find the random minor properties works wonders. While +1 Scale Mail might be the same as Half Plate from an AC perspective, when you give it a property like 'elven made, weighs 1/5 as much' or 'floats on water' or 'keeps you warm in cold weather' it makes the world of difference (and it also really helps those magic items 'pop').
 

And yes, Cloak of Invisivility should have been based on a 4th lvl spell, which would put its price at 200.000.
A concentration-free version of a 4th level spell, usable nearly at-will, that you'd want to stack with other effects. Oh, and activating/deactivating it is an object interaction (raise/lower hood).

It is a top tier legendary item.

The only reason it isn't ridiculously broken is blindsight/truesight on boss monsters at high level. Even then, on ranged PCs they can often just outrange those senses.

One of the core benefits of the shield styles in 5e is the RAW cheap and easier to get magic attunement free AC from a shield.

For this, you give up access to -5/+10 feats, which are massive contributions to damage, growing in importance and impact as you gain levels (as ATK outpaces monster AC, and advantage gets easier to get).
 

A concentration-free version of a 4th level spell, usable nearly at-will, that you'd want to stack with other effects. Oh, and activating/deactivating it is an object interaction (raise/lower hood).

It is a top tier legendary item.

The only reason it isn't ridiculously broken is blindsight/truesight on boss monsters at high level. Even then, on ranged PCs they can often just outrange those senses.
Invisibility isnt anywhere near as broken now as it was in prior editions. Im not sure what makes this so crazy broken?

Like; Gloomstalker rangers are basically doing this vs all critters with darkvision from 3rd level, and that's breaking nothing.
 



Invisibility isnt anywhere near as broken now as it was in prior editions. Im not sure what makes this so crazy broken?

Like; Gloomstalker rangers are basically doing this vs all critters with darkvision from 3rd level, and that's breaking nothing.
Against creatures without "see invisible", it is disadvantage on all attacks on you, and advantage on all attacks you make, and immunity to all attacks of opportunity, and immunity to entire categories of spells.

The fact you can also hide and make the enemy lose track of you is a slight bonus. And there are easier ways to get invisibility that aren't as top-tier as the cloak.

I mean, there are better combat buffs. Haste, Tenser's, Holy Weapon, Swift Quiver, Foresight, Shadowblade, Wish(Simulacrum) all compete really well with Greater Invisibility.

Of those, all but Tenser's stacks perfectly with greater invisibility. And items that did any of those others would as a non-action also be top-tier legendary gear. (The closest item I can find is the Scimitar of Speed, which is ridiculously weaker than "item that casts haste for 2 hours/day as no action" analogue of the cloak of invisibility)

Gloomstalker gets invisibility against creatures with darkvision if there are no light sources. Given how darkvision works in 5e, underground races would still light things up (darkvision gives you sight with disadvantage in darkness; it would be like humans living where the light never gets brighter than a full moon). Having glowing fungus that generates a dim light within 20', for example, is perfect for underground races (they get full vision, surface dwellers get disadvantage on perception, and Gloomstalker's invisibility doesn't work).
 
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Against creatures without "see invisible", it is disadvantage on all attacks on you, and advantage on all attacks you make, and immunity to all attacks of opportunity, and immunity to entire categories of spells.
Including many beneficial spells. Bless, Healing word, Haste, Polymorph and tons of others. Your friendly Cleric cant choose to exclude you from Spirit guardians effect. There are heaps of helpful effects abilities and spells you cannot be targeted with when invisible in addition to hostile ones.

And dont fall to 0HP with the hood up either. That could cause some problems.

Dont get me wrong, its a fantastic magic item befitting of legendary tier. But I dont think it's as 'broken' as you claim it is.

Of those, all but Tenser's stacks perfectly with greater invisibility.
Against creatures without blindisght, truesight or similar. It gives you advantage and them disadvantage. Seeing as you already had advantage to hit anyway thanks to Tensers transformation, I'm not sure how this suddenly becomes broken?
 

Against creatures without blindisght, truesight or similar. It gives you advantage and them disadvantage. Seeing as you already had advantage to hit anyway thanks to Tensers transformation, I'm not sure how this suddenly becomes broken?
I listed, in my opinion, the strongest combat buffs in 5e, and noted that greater invisibility stacks very well with many of them.

Foresight is better, but a 9th level slot. Tensers it stacks poorly with (you only get defensive benefits from Invis). Shadowblade "advantage in dim light" doesn't stack, but the dice from the weapon does. Haste, Holy Weapon, Swift Quiver and Wish(Simulacrum) stack perfectly with Greater Invis.

Normally stacking more than one of these requires extra-character support, because all but Wish(Simulacrum) is a concentration spell. This gives you another concentration-quality spell effect that stacks with many of the other top-tier buffs in the game.

Greater Invisibility's main weaknesses are that see invis/blindsight/truesight becomes commoner at high levels, its short duration (hence action requirement in-combat usually), and concentration requirement. The cloak gets rid of all but 1 of these downsides.
 

I listed, in my opinion, the strongest combat buffs in 5e, and noted that greater invisibility stacks very well with many of them.
And I was pointing out that many of those strong combat buffs can only be cast on a 'target you can see' ruling out the invisible creature (or at the very least providing some difficulties in targeting) as well.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
RHoD in essence puts the PCs in front of BBEG's blitzkreig.
They have to warn The Authorities, delay the enemy's oncoming might, and contact potential allies to send aid. There are two possible climaxes: a defensive fight at the regional capital city, or taking the fight to BBEG personally in his lair - as he brings in reinforcements.
I recognized the parallels to Rise of Tiamat, which is basically a larger version of this scenario. (I was weird and discovered / read them in reverse order of publication.)
In case no one else has suggested it, let them hire hirelings to do downtime activities for them, and shorten how long those things take.
 


Xeviat

Adventurer
If that's what you want, why don't you just use those 3E DMG rules for wealth-by-level, magic item prices and city limits?

The strength of 5E rules is that they make no assumptions on these kind of things to make the game work, but it doesn't prevent you from adding your own.
I'm actually strongly considering that, and just dividing the magic item enhancement bonuses by 2 and rounding up. I appreciate the structure, and I find the presentation of the 5E magic items to be not helpful.
 

I'm actually strongly considering that, and just dividing the magic item enhancement bonuses by 2 and rounding up. I appreciate the structure, and I find the presentation of the 5E magic items to be not helpful.
Round up for a plain item.
Round down for an item with a property.

Then adjust to taste.

So a +1 flaming sword becomes a +0 magical flaming sword.

A +5 sword is a +3 sword. A +5 holy avenger becomes a +2 holy avenger (which you might adjust, because +2 holy avenger seems a bit cheap, but you get the point).

You can even just drop the pluses entirely if the other feature seems awesome enough.
 
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