D&D 5E Frustrated with 5E magic items

[toucanbuzz]

I'm curious how other people have made the transition from more structured magic item and treasure editions like 3E and 4E over to a looser system like 5E.

I first celebrated the death of "wealth by level" structuring with a drink. Then I observed that yes, players accumulate wealth and D&D isn't designed to use that wealth to buy bigger and better magical items. In AD&D, you'd buy a castle, finance your army, pay your butler, open a thieves' guild, and so on. If you're looking for rules on that, recommend the "Pathfinder Ultimate Campaign" book (OGL is largely free online). It has a complete set of prices and rules for that type of stuff, and because it's a mini-game within the game, there's no conversion issue. You can run it largely as-is.

I've run RHOD in 3.5, and it's got a timer, so lugging around hoards of coins isn't really what the adventure is about. I roughly have been knocking 3rd/Pathfinder conversions to around 10% wealth and making rough use from Xanathar's about how many magic items should be in my campaign. If the players have accumulated items they can't use, then use this as a roleplay opportunity to find others who might be willing to trade for something they have. Or, let them use their wealth to buy a treasure map or research a "recipe" into making an item.

Lecture Part: Just be aware that with the rarity of magical items, most people should be loathe to give one up. They should be an awesome thing to find (holy crap, a magical weapon?) that might redefine how you play your character. And if they aren't rare in your setting, then they aren't as special, and that was a major issue raised constantly on the forums when I played 3.5 and Pathfinder.

 

[Eltab]

Is it important that you limit player downtime during this adventure or is that something on which you can bend?

RHoD in essence puts the PCs in front of BBEG's blitzkreig.
They have to warn The Authorities, delay the enemy's oncoming might, and contact potential allies to send aid. There are two possible climaxes: a defensive fight at the regional capital city, or taking the fight to BBEG personally in his lair - as he brings in reinforcements.
I recognized the parallels to Rise of Tiamat, which is basically a larger version of this scenario. (I was weird and discovered / read them in reverse order of publication.)

 

[jayoungr]

There's also this book, if your PCs really have a lot of money and ambition:

Strongholds & Followers PDF

Strongholds & Followers is a supplement for 5th Edition that gives your character something to spend their money on and extend their influence in the local area. Raise armies! Research spells! Spy on your enemies!

shop.mcdmproductions.com

I backed the Kickstarter, and I really like the book. Haven't had a chance to use it in play (yet), though. It's also available in hardback.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think in the specific case of Red Hand of Doom, large sums of money can be quickly spend if the players want to invest in the defense of the region. Money does not need to be spend ON the characters.

• The dwarfholds to the south can be recruited for a large sum of money (only vaguely hinted in the adventure's description of the region).
• The players could also send money to artisans and builders outside the region, so they come to fortify Thindol (the city besieged at the end of the adventure),
• commandeer ships or caravans to evacuate the next large town on the horde's path should Thindol fall,
• recruit mercenaries,
• recruit assassins or saboteurs to weaken enemy forces,
• bribe goblinoid forces,
• create a hoard for a good-aligned dragon so it would defend the region,
• buy their way out of a failed recruiting mission: buy a powerful druidic item for the elves should the player fail the mission to recruit them, offer a better phylactery for the ghost-lord so he will create ghostly lions to help you instead just being neutral.
• Stockpile diamonds to resurrect civilian casualties.
• Offer a cache of magic items to the defending forces.
• for an incredible sum, field an actual army to face the horde.
• Ridiculous (yet fun): offer such a large treasure hoard that Tiamat would remove her favors to the Warlord in the last battle in her temple.

just create a vague table stating the cost of an investment and the number of Victory points each one adds to the final ranking.

 

[Undrave]

That might work once, but if you aren't hosting and attending social functions or being seen on the town, it will quickly wear thin. Plus, after your bath and new clothes buying, how do you possibly keep them clean?

In other words, it's not what you look like that gets you access, it's your reputation and contacts, both of which require more than a bath and new clothes (all of which are bespoke at that level). It's a matter of what matters.

But, yeah, if you're playing wandering heroes and structure your game so it doesnt matter, it doesn't matter.

Ah yeah if you're staying at the same place all the time it's different, but if you're just passing by you don't need much.

 

[jgsugden]

Just as a tangential note: Consider adding magic items (and spells) to your world that non-adventurers would want (although they may still be of use to adventurers, the idea is that the wealthy would have these created for themselves). It gives the world a more 'lived in' feel - and a lot of them do not need to require attunement, allowing the PCs some extra things to spend funds on that do not overpower them.

My magic items table is the one from the DMG, but it adds in dozens of items that would benefit the wealthy enough that they'd spend their wealth to have it made. Simple examples:

Wand of counting: You point it and say what you want to count, then it counts them for you. Count a pile of coins, a crowd of people, etc...

Mirrors of passage: Two 6 inch mirrors. When you put something into one, it comes out of the other. Invaluable for shipping small goods, securing your money, etc... Usable for 3 rounds per day.

Rod of vibration: It vibrates on command.

Librarian's Tome: This magical book is attuned to a user and a location. Regardless of where the book is, the attuned user can name a book in the library and the Librarian's Tome will alter to become a copy of that book.

Tenser's Transport: This is a round disk the size of a Tenser's Disk. When you step on (or place objects on) it and name a location, the disk will start floating towards it at 60 feet per round. It will move towards the direction of the target location using the most direct route it can observe (60' sight), but will take verbal commands to alter the path to go around obstacles.

Axe of Mining: This mining axe is similar to a dancing sword, except it mines rather than fighting.

 

[NotAYakk]

I dislike "sane magic item prices".

It has a number of structural errors (magic shields cost the same as armor, for example, and many items are priced based on utility to L20 PCs).

Instead, use random magic item tables to find what items are for sale. Price them randomly in the DMG price range. Divide consumable prices by 10. Finding the item may require checks.

"Higher level" areas have better treasure charts.

Sometimes fudge to help PCs out (if a PC uses a polearm, or whatever), but not always.

No magic mart.

As noted, there are other things that they can spend gold in. Make those better deals...

 

[Helldritch]

Rod of vibration: It vibrates on command.

This! This made me laugh my asses off. I know a few female player would kill for such a rod.


For coocking of course, what were you thinking?

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Search for "Sane Magic Item Prices"--it's a free PDF, and I believe ENworld has a copy for download somewhere. It can help you get a handle on how much things should cost.

Sane grossly underestimates the usability of a lot of magic items in 5E, basing it way too much on hold overs from 3.X. I'd suggest you use Blacky the Blackball's excellent treasure supplement.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Hiya!

If your Player's Character's are walking around with tens of thousands of GP's (in various forms) and "don't know what to spend them on", well, imnsho the problem isn't that THEY don't know what to spend them on...but YOU (the DM) don't know what to spend them on.

PC's stagger back to town, wounded, depleted of equipment, and ready for a rest...
Guards: "Ho ho...! Looks like adventurers have returned...barely! Congratulations! You look like you all need a good sleep and some food and wine in your bellies, no? Well, we'll make this quick then. Standard adventuring treasure recovery tax is a nice, flat 20% here in our fine, prosperous country! Be glad you didn't go to Yonderville, it's in Uthercountry...they're on rough times...heard their adventuring treasure recovery tax is at 50%! Heh...probably know that, huh? Probably why you came here. Anyway...lets get this done. Gotta keep the tax man happy, right?"
..
PC's get to the Golden Horn Inn:
Proprietor: "My Stars! You folks look downright disheveled! Here, let us get you the finest rooms...in fact, it's an entire floor, all to your selves. Four bedrooms, a spare one you can use as another bedroom or for storing gear, two private bathrooms, full hot-bath services and laundry, food, two sitting rooms and a large room with a large fireplace...even get a healer to come help you guys if you want. No no no....don't worry about the price! I'm sure you fine adventurers can easily pay the meager fees! You won't regret it! Finest service in the city!"
..
PC's are having Brunch at Golden Horn Inn after a nice nights rest:
Proprietor: "Good sir's and madam's, sorry to intrude, but I have been inundated with messages from some of your...friends? Favoured shopkeeps and artisans? Here's the list of them...14 to be exact! Busy...and popular you are! And don't worry about paying for brunch. I've managed to get some good deals on that Sweet-Honey-Wine that Mistress Beatrice was sipping on last night! You staying here has brought in new customers, for sure! In fact, I have two free bottles of that Sweet-Honey-Wine for you from the local winery...'Teebles Brews and Distilleries'...best alcoholic craftsman...er...crafts-halfling...in the country I'd bet! ...I believe he's number 3 on your list there..."
..
...and so, the PC's pay taxes, pay for room and board, get requests from other patrons/businesses offering "deals" on their wares, and I'd fully expect various religious people to come a'knocking, as well as artists, bards, torchbearers, porters, etc...etc. The PC's should have no trouble at all finding things to spend their money on....because others will help them. (or at least try!)

If your Players are anything like mine, they'll be out of coin in a matter of days. Spending it on food, wine, parties, new equipment, hirelings, fancy new clothes, getting their various pieces of equipment "fancified" (coated in silver, gilded, gem-encrusted, carved/engraved, etc). Oh, sure, they have have a few thousand left, but that won't last either.

If you want to really make your Players "get into" the world...you need to provide them the means to, uh, 'invest' in it. The best way to do that, in my experience, is to offer them opportunities to spend it on 'the world' in stead of a boring new magic item. You can always find a +2 Dagger in a dungeon...you can't find a good carpenter who is willing to help build your new house for 25% off! The dagger won't help develop "ties" to your campaign setting or it's NPC's...that potential friendship with a good carpenter will. And, IMVNSHO, the later is infinitely more desirable than the former!
(in other words, "Ye Old Magic Shoppe" is a cop-out if you ask me...which is why there are almost none in any of my campaigns...ever...).

^_^

Paul L. Ming

So invent money sinks, it is then. Might as well just refrain from giving them gold then, and save the time spent on the money sink "roleplay".