Frustrating Gamers- slight rant

[NoOneofConsequence]

Sympathiser speaks

:hew:: just finished reading the whole thread.

I had a long agreement to the original post and rebuttal to many points made, but I just reached a point where I thought - what is the point?

I think that the reason that I agree with the original post is that there are just so many times when I write something complex, interesting and important (to me) and have it ignored or worse yet abused by someone who doesn't appear to have taken any time to think about it.

:shrug:

I used to like posting to EN World - lately I don't know why anymore. Heck, I even got told recently that I don't pronounce "enworld" the right way.

 

[Gez]

Re: Sympathiser speaks

There are just so many times when I write something complex, interesting and important (to me) and have it ignored or worse yet abused by someone who doesn't appear to have taken any time to think about it.

Heh, it's the drawback of being noone of consequence. If you were going by the login VeryImportantPerson, you would be less ignored.

 

[Dark Eternal]

I probably shouldn't have spent all that time reading this entire thread, myself. But I couldn't resist - once I read the first few posts, I was hooked.

At least I got a new sig out of the deal - thanks, Eric!


Moving along, I just wanted to take a moment to say that I can't really take sides in this entire issue, except in one regard: I don't feel that it ever does one's argument any good to be disrespectful of those who hold an opposing view. I don't think I'm in the minority when I say that I instantly lower my estimation of an argument that is rude or disrespectful, and raise my estimation of an argument presented with courtesy and regard for the opposition's feelings. I don't think any one side of any issue has a monopoly on people supporting it while dissing those who feel differently.

I just think that disrespect should be less common on these boards than it is - isn't it easier to respect people who share a common interest? At least we're all gamers, after all. If you have to disrespect someone, disrespect the people who think that we are all doing the work of the devil. Show your fellow gamers the respect that you, personally, want to be shown.

Just my 2cp worth. Thanks again for the sig, Eric, and everyone have a great day!

 

[NoOneofConsequence]

Re: Re: Sympathiser speaks

Heh, it's the drawback of being noone of consequence. If you were going by the login VeryImportantPerson, you would be less ignored.

Thanks Gez. I needed that.

 

[Belen]

I have to admit that I never thought my rant would go so far, but it is good to hear the thoughts of others on the boards. It's great to see that civility can reign again on the boards. While I was hoping that no one would take my original post personally, I had expected a different response. Thank you, Eric, for keeping things on track and adding the humor and wit that the conversation needed!

Earthshadow: Great posts and I agree with you. (Note: Not about the d20 system though) It's the attitude of the guys you encountered that has turned a lot of players away. I think the edition wars has a lot to do with this as well. The flame wars between the 2e and 3e crowd are vicious and can appear in just about any post.

Personally, I have seen non-DnD people act just as superior, especially before d20. You were automatically looked down upon if you played such a "broken" game. Heck, I never played the other games because 1) I have already invested a considerable amount of money in DnD 2) I just cannot learn multiple systems. It's hard enough to recruit players in the bible belt!

Reaper: Thanks for the vote of confidence and the support. I WAS hoping to provoke discussion and I have enjoyed all the great posts.

NoOneofconsequence also makes some great remarks. I used to post a lot of my concerns and problems on EnWorld, but the flaming and lacks of response has driven me away recently. I would say that 4 out of 5 of my players have switched to the <gasp> WOTC boards because we see more civility there. Heck, I started posting there too! I see much less flame there, but not as much experience. It seems that a lot of younger gamers are there as compared to EnWorld. (Would that be a cause of concern? Does EnWorld not provide a good environment for younger players?)

Azlan hits the mark on the head with his definitions of snobbery. My definition would include those and add that anyone who disses someone for an opinion, mocks them, or feel superior because they can PROVE someone is wrong is an gaming elitist.

Maybe we should begin to wonder why WOTC gets the younger crowd. EnWorld's name gets thrown around there often enough to make some of those people want to try us out. The young kids are the LIFEBLOOD of the hobby, we should do everything possible to encourage them.

 

[EricNoah]

And I thought this was a GENERAL RPG DISCUSSION BOARD, where ANY RPG could be discussed within rational means.

You're right, it is, and many games outside of D&D have been discussed here at length. If you start out your discussion with "D&D sucks" though, you might expect to see people calling you a troll because that's classic troll behavior.

 

[EricNoah]

I won't be able to participate in this discussion as vigorously for a couple of days, but want to say a couple of things...

1) If you want to see something different, lead by example. Set the standard for civil discussion and others will rise to your level.

2) If someone's being rude, hit that "report to moderator" button. We can't read and participate in every thread. Help us moderate by giving us a head's up.

3) EN World and my old site have always skewed older -- every single poll/survey we've done shows that the readership here is by and large 25+. It is just the way it's always been. That said, I did strive hard to keep things kid friendly around here -- Grandma's rules and all. So if there are fewer younger people here, it's not because we haven't done our best to be kid-friendly.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I've had very limited experience of the Wotc boards, but every time I get tempted to try them out I come running back here...simply because the general tone of the boards here is older and more experienced!

but then, I'm speaking from very limited experience. Oh, and I've just turned 24

On the issue of snobbery I have almost nothing to say, except that I've not really found it a problem. I just tend to not worry about what other people say, if they're not backing up their arguments.

 

[Piratecat]

Coke IS better than Pepsi.

----

I think that these boards are remarkably polite. They could be better, but you know what? That's always been the case! The only thing stopping them is human nature. There have been disagreements and awkwardness ever since Eric first started this community. Anyone who remembers SonOfAPreacherman's "fire pellet?" thread can attest to that.

Here's why: people find the site. It takes them a while to learn the ropes and the posting style expected here, because let's face it, our style is quite different than r.g.f.d. or rpg.net. And just about the time that they settle into a groove, new people have joined the boards who haven't learned the culture. It's a constant churn, 96% helpful kindness and 4% inadvertent rudeness. The 4% sticks in peoples' memories, though.

Add to this sources of outside stress - the war in Iraq, the coming of 3.5 - and people become a bit more fractious and quick to take offense. I know I have been, and that's uncharacteristic of me.

It's a shared community, and it's one that I loooove. Helping new members get as much out of it as old members do should be one of everyone's goals. When people say "EN World is 'x'", you have to remember that to someone reading your post, YOU are EN World. You. In totality. And people judge the site by how you respond. It's daunting, but true. And to be frank, I'm proud of how the members here represent the site.

 

[Frostmarrow]

Keep it up!

You've got to love EN-Boards. (Uhm... in my humble opinion.)