D&D 5E Full D&D Adventurers League is for Americas only...

I was trying to point out the larger issue of, "Not defining obscure acronyms before using them in a conversation". And yeah you did give some vague context, without giving the definition of the acronym, so it still remained a mystery. But you knew that - which is why you later, in response to my questioning it, finally wrote the actual words that made up the acronym.

I don't think I was asking something unreasonable. If you do - fair enough. If you're only trying to communicate with the people who already understand the acronym, fine. If you're trying to communicate with others though, you might consider what I said.

I think that if you were attempting to communicate, you got a critical fail, because you decided snark (including referring to me in the third person and telling me how I spend my time! Come on...) and an appeal to an un-sourced authority (this alleged "guide" to acronym use) were the correct ways to approach the problem (rather than saying "I have no idea what you are talking about..."), which we can clearly see, they were not. Your post was absolutely, to me, unreasonable. There was no politeness, no directness, no request, just a sneering indirect(!) demand that if I have time to post "every day on multiple messageboards" (which isn't even true, note - I generally only post here, and not every day!), then I have to follow some rules I've never heard of, which you've not sourced, and which make no sense to me in the context.

This is internet, Mistwell. If this was real life, or a printed book, I actually might agree with the criticism (though said I stopped explaining what DotA's words meant because I found it confused people, IRL, rather than just describing the game, so not here).

But it's the internet. If you want to know what something is, you look it up. That's what I do. It takes seconds. So instead of you taking a few seconds to look it up, you've spent minutes of both of our time. Which in my experience is usually a form of attention-seeking (not always, but very often).

So yes, I do think it's unreasonable to follow that un-sourced guide's demands on the internet. If had introduced the concept of DotA to a conversation, I would have explained it - but I still likely wouldn't have broken down the acronym, because this particular acronym is meaningless. I literally don't even remember exactly what MOBA acronyms to myself! Multiplayer Online Battle Arena, I think. Obviously that's meaningless, though, because it could describe 99% of versus multiplayer games. It's just the word/acronym that describes this object!

With a meaningful acronym, it might be another matter - MMORPG, for example, - but I think it's fair to assume that as many people here know what MMORPG means as know what UA, say means (more, even, perhaps). In fact, MMORPG is less vague than UA, as there are a number of UAs.

Still, I don't think it's unreasonable of me to respond to a poster who uses acronyms with the same acronyms, and to expect people who want to join in intelligently to look those things up. You could not have contributed to that conversation just from me saying "Defence of the Ancients". It would not have helped you. Nor would "Multiplayer Online Battle Arena". I had to explain the concept, and I did (or you could have looked it up). I will add again that I've had to look up tons of acronyms here, that no-one explaining (ACKS, for example, I came to learn means Adventurer, Conquerer, King System). Finally, I note that you've still not explained why you took me to task, and not the other poster, but I will leave that where it is. I don't think there's any more to be said.
 

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From my understanding, this has more to do with scaling things slowly rather than any long term neglect of non American areas. I think they want to work out the kinks the first year while slowly staffing up / finding volunteers to run things internationally. I suspect in two years it will have a PFS like reach where there will be localization folks as well as regional coordinators for most countries / areas.
 

While an incredibly long and verbose argument about the minutiae of polite usage of acronyms between the very equal Mistwell and Ruin Explorer is actually something I'd pay to watch, it's rather derailing this thread. I'm happy to split it off into its own thread if you guys want to continue the debate? But let's try to stay on target for this one.
 

Well, they definitely do recognise the specific concepts in South Korea and Japan, I can say that with absolute certainty based on their MMORPGs. China is a bit more complicated, but certainly they recognise a lot of the basic D&D concepts very well.
I believe you, but at the same time I'm not sure if "recognizable" concepts is enough. I mean, even friends get into rows on boards like these about exactly how a fighter class or spellcasting should be represented, because everyone has their own favorite themes and aspects and character concepts. While I'm certain the same would be true among a group of Chinese or Indian or Filipino or Korean D&Ders, without the same cultural points of reference as westerners, would those Chinese D&Ders be arguing around similar points?

At this point, I can only defer to you and other commenters who've spent more time there* and with the culture than I have. All said and done though, I still think cultural factors will remain a significant obstacle (if not an insurmountable one) to TTRPG penetration into emerging markets.

*("There" being whichever emerging market you care to talk about; there are plenty to choose from.)
 

Just for reference:

Gen Con - Indianapolis, IN (8/14-8/17)

Fan Expo Canada - Toronto, Ontario, Canada - 'Labor Day' Weekend (8/28-8/31)
Pax Prime - Seattle, WA - Labor Day weekend (End of August, 8/29-9/1)
Dragoncon - Atlanta, GA - Labor Day weekend (8/29-9/1)

Archon - St. Louis area, MO/IL - Early October (Oct. 3-5)

Hal-Con - Halifax, NB, Canada - Early November (Nov. 7-9)
GameHole Con - Madison, WI - Early November (Nov. 7-9)

Winter Fantasy - Ft. Wayne, IN - Late Jan. or early February
GottaCon - Victoria, BC, Canada - Late February (2/27-3/1/2015)

Launch at GenCon (east central US), 2 weeks later 3 corners of the US (Toronto, Atlanta, Seattle), mid-America in October, far eastern Canada and mid-America again in November, and then mid-America and the NW toward late winter.

Hopefully SoCal through Texas conventions in the spring and next summer give the south and SW gamers a shot.
 
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[MENTION=2525]Mistwell[/MENTION], I normally would spell out something like DotA in full the first time but I have never heard of the game referred to as anything but DotA. I had to go back to Wikipedia to find out what it stood for....

(snip) To look at it from the other side, if games like Final Fantasy (except possibly its earliest episodes) are any indication, then the style of fantasy stories popular in Asian markets are pretty far removed from that of J. R. R. Tolkien or R. A. Salvatore. If nothing else, if I were in charge of marketing D&D in Asia, the first thing I'd do is hire an art director exclusively for this market.

Interesting.

By contrast, I think the angsty, emo crap of Drizzt would be lapped up in Asia: soap operas - particularly those filled with angsty, emo crap - are huge here, particularly the Korean soaps dubbed into local languages.

As for your "first thing" comment, I would make that the second thing. The first qualification I would look for in hiring someone to drive marketing in Asia is a very clear and practical understanding that Asia is not an homogenous culture. Sure, rice is common as the staple food in all (?) Asian nations and bad driving is the norm, but otherwise the cultures of Asian nations are fairly heterogenous.

Perhaps it's time to fork the thread?
 

By contrast, I think the angsty, emo crap of Drizzt would be lapped up in Asia: soap operas - particularly those filled with angsty, emo crap - are huge here, particularly the Korean soaps dubbed into local languages.
Great point! Hopefully WotC will start tap those markets; Lord knows those stupid Drizz't books are both a cash cow and a gateway to gaming.

As for your "first thing" comment, I would make that the second thing. The first qualification I would look for in hiring someone to drive marketing in Asia is a very clear and practical understanding that Asia is not an homogenous culture. Sure, rice is common as the staple food in all (?) Asian nations and bad driving is the norm, but otherwise the cultures of Asian nations are fairly heterogenous.
Fair enough, and I hope I didn't give you the impression that I thought it was. That said, having one marketing direction for East Asia and another for the rest of the world would still be a damn sight better than just having one for the entire world--D&D's current market isn't particularly homogenous either. Despite their many cultural differences, countries in East Asia still consume a lot of media from one another, so I think there could potentially be a pan-Asian appetite for D&D with a carefully crafted marketing strategy.

I think your point is spot-on, though. It should go without saying that, hypothetically, anyone who ended up in charge of marketing D&D (or anything, really) to Asian markets probably ought to be aware of Asia's non-homogeneity.

Perhaps it's time to fork the thread?
If you'd like to, I don't mind. We're talking about D&D reaching outside of its traditional markets, which is a fair bit closer to the topic than at least some of the conversations we've seen in this thread. I'm happy to follow your lead, and moderators' directions.
 

Great point! Hopefully WotC will start tap those markets; Lord knows those stupid Drizz't books are both a cash cow and a gateway to gaming. (snip)

Honestly, I think RAS has turned dwarves into the D&D equivalent of gungans (brain damage, speech impediments) - among other crimes against good writing - but he is clearly very popular and has been for 20+ years. It seems to be a no-brainer to increase the focus on his characters and I think (but could be wrong) that they might also translate well into Asian cultures.

Despite their many cultural differences, countries in East Asia still consume a lot of media from one another, so I think there could potentially be a pan-Asian appetite for D&D with a carefully crafted marketing strategy. (snip)
This is so true. I quoted the example of Korean soap operas which are mega-popular throughout Asia, but Thai films also seem to cross national boundaries and I am sure there are other examples. (Philippine movies and TV don't seem to have a market beyond the Philippine diaspora but they are absolute crap.)

(snip) If you'd like to, I don't mind. We're talking about D&D reaching outside of its traditional markets, which is a fair bit closer to the topic than at least some of the conversations we've seen in this thread. I'm happy to follow your lead, and moderators' directions.

I think I better. It seems to be an interesting topic and I suspect that there will be a few people who can offer some interesting points-of-view.
 

Speaking as a Malaysian, I was hoping that I could get into OP via a home game to give my group more 'purpose' to come back to the table for a weekly game. But missing out on the Expeditions and Epics is a real way to detach us non-American gamers from the gaming world. But I guess we just have to make-do whatever we are given...

Getting support from local shop owners here would be difficult because they are simply not bringing in D&D to their shelves, even though the shops usually gets horded by Magic: The Gathering players. One reason for this that I don't see being mentioned and realised on this thread that is a larger barrier to having having D&D products, at least in this part of Asia, is summarised in one word: piracy.

As one shopkeeper once told me why they had removed D&D from their shelves (and subsequently replaced them with boardgames) is that no one buys the books if they can get it for free online. It's just not a marketable product here if the means to acquire the PDFs of these are easy and rampant.

As for the TTRPG gaming community is concerned, I've seen it rise and fall all without any retail support in my two decades of gaming. We've been fighting a dying fight from the beginning and we could use some reinforcements (to which I thought having a more open ways for non-American players to interact could be one of them).

Wow, it's been ages since I've posted that I thought I would never post again on ENWorld.
 

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