Full round casting, reflex saves, area of effect spells

[Darklone]

Except threaten an area...

-Hyp.

Hehehe. Point taken.

 

[Li Shenron]

Or I could use this line on the same chart:

Distracting spell’s save DC Distracted by nondamaging spell.

If you are affected by a spell while attempting to cast a spell of your own, you must make a Concentration check or lose the spell you are casting.

If the spell affecting you deals damage, the DC is 10 + points of damage + the level of the spell you’re casting.

If the spell interferes with you or distracts you in some other way, the DC is the spell’s saving throw DC + the level of the spell you’re casting.

Funny thing about this ruling is that the Concentration DC might be lower if you don't have Evasion and the damage taken is small enough.

At least because I believe that the "distraction-type Conc roll" is supposed to replace the roll against damage...

 

[Darklone]

Looking at it, I tend to ask for a concentration check with DC 10+spell level.

 

[shilsen]

Looking at it, I tend to ask for a concentration check with DC 10+spell level.

Wow! That is hugely easier on them than using the standard rule.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Of course, the rule is "If you are affected by a spell while attempting to cast a spell of your own, you must make a Concentration check or lose the spell you are casting."

If you successfully use Evasion, you're not affected by the spell (that's what Evasion does!), so the Concentration check isn't required...

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

What Hype said. No damage from spell --> no Concentration check.

 

[Darklone]

I understood the OPs argument refers to Evasions necessity to be able to move. ("Must have room in order to...")

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#evasionAndImprovedEvasion

That's why I would go for the vigorous motion concentration check ... assuming the DM thinks a check is needed at all. For the damage: I'd say no check in accordance with the others here.

 

[rvalle]

I understood the OPs argument refers to Evasions necessity to be able to move. ("Must have room in order to...")

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#evasionAndImprovedEvasion

That's why I would go for the vigorous motion concentration check ... assuming the DM thinks a check is needed at all. For the damage: I'd say no check in accordance with the others here.

Yes, that was what I was thinking of. Movement needed to avoid the damage while still being able to cast the spell.

This even took place in our game last night (as I thought it might). The character made his reflex save and I called for a save vs the spell dc per above which he failed.

A case can be made, I think, for the dc to be based on movement as Darklone said.

Funny thing about this ruling is that the Concentration DC might be lower if you don't have Evasion and the damage taken is small enough.

At least because I believe that the "distraction-type Conc roll" is supposed to replace the roll against damage...

I thought about this too but it wasn't so in this case. While the character had a Resist Energy (Fire) up the spell he was effected by was a Delayed Blast Fireball - 12 dice. 43 points of damage rolled -20 for the Resist makes the DC 33. I can see where it could be the case in some instances.

Is that a bad thing though? Per the text on Reflex save it is... well, reflexive. You do it without thinking. Even with a Resist Fire spell up you are going to try and twist out of the way of flames coming at you and if you are casting a spell at the time there should be a chance for the spell to fail (I think).

rv

 

[Darklone]

I guess he was happy he made the Refl save. Don't think he would have had too many hitpoints left even with the Resist Energy.

And sounds like bad luck with the Conc check. Skill focus Conc is not a bad idea

 

[Hypersmurf]

I thought about this too but it wasn't so in this case. While the character had a Resist Energy (Fire) up the spell he was effected by was a Delayed Blast Fireball - 12 dice. 43 points of damage rolled -20 for the Resist makes the DC 33. I can see where it could be the case in some instances.

Interestingly, there's rules support for the DC being 53, and the Resist Energy having no effect on the setting of that DC.

From the PHB Glossary:
[glossary]deal damage[/glossary]: Cause damage to a target with a successful attack. How much damage is dealt is usually expressed in terms of dice (for example, 2d6+4) and may have a situational modifier as well. However, damage dealt by a weapon or spell does not necessarily equal damage taken by the target, because the target may have special defenses that negate some or all of the damage.

[glossary]take damage[/glossary]: Be affected by damage (either lethal or nonlethal) from a successful attack. Damage dealt by an opponent does not necessarily equal damage taken, since various special defenses may reduce or negate damage from certain kinds of attacks.

The Concentration DC is 10 + damage dealt... and even though the damage taken is only 23 due to Resist Energy, the damage dealt was 43.

The rules draw a distinction between damage dealt and damage taken - damage dealt is before special defenses reduce or negate damage, and damage taken is after... and the Concentration DC uses damage dealt for its calculation...

-Hyp.