Fun to Play, Boring to Read; Forked Thread: The Nature of Change

[Lacyon]

I think I have to agree with Crothian, except I probably wouldn't limit it to D&D.

And its worse - I often even ignore fluff text. I want to get to know the rules when reading a rulebook. Exceptions might be books like Testmanent: Roleplaying in the Biblical Era and Changling: The Lost. And I looked into MotP and Dracomonicom more for the fluff. But Core Rulebooks? I focus on the crunch.

Y'know, I normally skip to the rules (at least on my first read through the books) in any game, because the fluff is going to get transmuted (or repleced entirely) anyway. But the lack of fluff has bothered me, too, on a level I have trouble understanding.

I think I've figured it out: I enjoy the "mini-game" of scanning the page for crunchy bits.

Wierd.

 

[Stoat]

The PHB made my eyes bleed. I read the whole thing, cover to cover, and hardly retained any of it. For a while, I was bummed about this.

But then I realized: I'm the DM. I don't need to have the PHB memorized. I really only need to know about 20 pages (combat, a little about rituals, a little about items).

I like flavor, but I don't like it when flavor obscures the meaning of the crunch. I don't like it when flavor makes it harder to find the crunch.

Frankly, I think Games Workshop does it right. The crunch is presented in plain, straightforward terms. The fluff is everywhere, in side bars, in illustrations, in whole chapters, but it isn't mixed in with the crunch.

 

[Verys Arkon]

I'm going to have to agree with the counterpoints to the OP. I do not want to have to wade through text while looking for a rule, which is what the PHB should be for.

3e is a game better played away from the table. ( I don't mean this as derogatory, since I miss this in 4e in a way.) The 3e books had more fluff and written, for the most part, as a book that could be read from cover-to-cover with little real difficulty (excluding the Compendiums). Even 3e's spells were more detailed and interesting to read. Between games you could do something related to D&D as a player, by reading these novel/rulebooks. You could scan the thousand+ feats for the ones you wanted. You could spend days making up a character and planning it out for 20 levels. You could scratch your D&D itch between games.

In 4e, the rulebooks are designed to get the information to you as quickly and clearly as possible, so you don't waste game time at the table while you are playing, and I appreciate them for that! 4e plays beautifully at the table. However, between games, it doesn't provide the same experience as 3e. Players find it hard to just read the core books, although the flavour books like Draconomicon, MotP, and Open Grave are much easier but these are DM-focused. Add this to the fact that there simply aren't as many books to read, as 4e is just a baby.

Sometimes I think it is this change that bug some 4e-detractors. 3e was more fun to play away from the table, and 4e is better at the table which is only a small fraction of the time compared to the intervening week(s).

The solution? Play more D&D, obviously

 

[Mallus]

Personally, I don't need a rule book that's fun to read. Few D&D rule books over the years were, as far as I'm concerned. As for inspiration and imagination... I don't need a whole lot of them in the rules, either.

When I'm looking for imagination and inspiration, I go to the primary sources, the literature that inspired D&D itself.

 

[Nebulous]

Even 3e's spells were more detailed and interesting to read. Between games you could do something related to D&D as a player, by reading these novel/rulebooks. You could scan the thousand+ feats for the ones you wanted. You could spend days making up a character and planning it out for 20 levels. You could scratch your D&D itch between games.

Yes, my brother laments that he can no longer pore over the mage or cleric spell lists, searching for those spells to get them out of the jam they found themselves in last session, or planning ahead for a future assault or infiltration. I'm not sure if more rulebooks in 4e will change this aspect of the game or not.

 

[nightwyrm]

Heck, 1e and 2nd ed books were a lot more fun to read than 3.x books. I used to borrow D&D books from the library just to read them. The rules were a mess, but the books were good reading.

 

[Holy Smokes]

Heck, 1e and 2nd ed books were a lot more fun to read than 3.x books. I used to borrow D&D books from the library just to read them. The rules were a mess, but the books were good reading.

This.

I practically fell asleep in the Gen Con '00 lobby trying to read my spanking new 3E PHB. For me, the key to learning 3rd edition was creating characters and playing the game. The '00 D&D Open was a blast, and very educational in this regard.

Of course, the 4E PHB is far worse, if possible. Power stat blocks work great on an individual basis, but laid out out on page after page without interruption makes for a real eye-bleeder. I think this is a flaw; as great as the powerblock format is as a per-power reference, its a non-trivial formatting failure for the PHB, in my opinion.

 

[Storminator]

This.

I practically fell asleep in the Gen Con '00 lobby trying to read my spanking new 3E PHB. For me, the key to learning 3rd edition was creating characters and playing the game. The '00 D&D Open was a blast, and very educational in this regard.

Of course, the 4E PHB is far worse, if possible. Power stat blocks work great on an individual basis, but laid out out on page after page without interruption makes for a real eye-bleeder. I think this is a flaw; as great as the powerblock format is as a per-power reference, its a non-trivial formatting failure for the PHB, in my opinion.

But where you learned 3e by making characters, you learn 4e by playing the game.

I haven't read the PHB cover to cover. I play a battle cleric, and I've only lightly skimmed the paragon paths. I've read the powers up to 6th level. I don't even know the ranger Encounter 1 powers. Epic destinies? One of those is Demigod, right?

I'm getting very sharp with my cleric powers tho! I have 2 that are low on my totem pole, but next session I'm going to put one of them to rocking use!

PS

 

[Nebulous]

Of course, the 4E PHB is far worse, if possible. Power stat blocks work great on an individual basis, but laid out out on page after page without interruption makes for a real eye-bleeder. I think this is a flaw; as great as the powerblock format is as a per-power reference, its a non-trivial formatting failure for the PHB, in my opinion.

I'm not a fan of any 4e layout choices at all, but what could they have done different? I guess breaking up the power blocks with art, or font type, or something else. I'm not sure. It really does read like a clinical textbook.

 

[Shroomy]

I actually do like reading the 4e books, even the power blocks (I like powers). I never really read my 3.5e books cover to cover (I usually skimmed them and referenced what I needed; only really sat down and read core parts of the rules, but the prose was far from scintillating), but I do for all of my 4e books. I guess that makes me an odd duck.