"Fun"

[gizmo33]

1st Ed was mini/grid/tactical/"board-game" heavy.

In theory or in practice? IME the details of what could be done in a melee round, and how far you could move, etc. required a lot of subjective DM judgement. This, and the fact that melee rounds were 1 minute long meant that 1E was not nearly as min-dependant and tactical as 3E is. IME the fact that DnD was supposedly derived from Chainmail didn't mean what you would think - I don't think I ever played ADnD with anyone who had ever played Chainmail.

Look, D&D has always been two games, amateur dramatics/storytelling (non-combat), and a board game (combat) – get over it.

"Get over it" is always unreliable advice IMO. DnD has not always been balanced between dramatic and board-game elements in the same proportions through all editions. Sometimes the proportions were encouraged by the rules, but probably more often it was just a matter of the current gamer culture.

 

[haakon1]

For what it's worth (nothing):

-- I like encounters with guards, both as a DM and a player. As a DM, it's a chance to ask the player how he/she presents the character to NPC's. This is important for beginning players, as part of their learning to act in character.

For more advanced players, the details of the equipment and heraldry of the guards can provide clues about what's going on. For example, in the latest tower the PC's visited, the guards have studded leather, crossbows, and daggers -- clearly not elite, well-equiped troops, but not peasant rabble either (crossbows ain't that cheap in my world). Since their mission was to deal with the local lord's complaint -- orc attacks -- so he would fullfill his feudal obligation to send troops to the front, this was important information about the state of the local forces.

They also saw the local heraldry of a black tower (generally the symbol of the Margrave of Bissel) with an blue background with white waves, and an eye above. This heraldry fit with the info the monk later discovered, that the tower was originally paid for by the Margrave and given to a minor feudal retainer/ancestor of the current Baronet, and its purpose was to intercept river pirates along the Fals River, especially Rhennee slaver gangs kidnapping people up the river to Ket.

When they met Rhennee rivermen in the inn, it was a more meaningful encounter . . . a red herring, but more interesting, nevertheless.

Details like this can add verissimilitude to D&D and make the "suspension of disbelief" more deep, IMHO.

Also, since my days of running RECON, I've been a big believer in the "if it's not on your character sheet, you forgot to bring it" rule. That can get interesting sometimes . . .

 

[Tao]

No. Whoever wrote this paragraph is make an explicit statement about sertain parts of the game being not fun and telling the DM to avoid them. That is badwrongfunism. But more importantly, it contradicts a good portion of the introductory chapter and other places in the book where 4E expressly offers up options to the DM (something about which I was very concerned before 4E came out and was ecstatic to see a core element of the DMG design) to provide the most fun for his/her players. This paragraph is unnecessarily antagonstic toward "old school" gaming, AND it doesn't fit in with the rest of the DMG.

I agree with the general sentiment here, but I think there's something that should be remembered in the defense of that statement: When was the last time you played with a new DM?

For a new DM, it can often be a daunting task to keep the game moving. Oftentimes, they would get stuck in the rut of explaining and roleplaying every single step of the journey. I think it's a good thing to remind the DM that they can fastforward through things that they or their players might not enjoy. I think anyone with any experience is capable of making those calls for themselves.

Like anything else in the DMG, it's a suggestion. At least for new DMs, its a pretty good suggestion at that. For old hands that know how to make some of those things fun, then you're still doing your job. Let's face it... for most old skool DMs most of the DMG was just a refresher course anyways. We've already gotten past it. That stuff's just there for the new guys.

 

[pemerton]

I don't think it has rules to actively support narrative (story). I might be wrong about this though.

I haven't looked at the Quest rules yet, but they might go some way in this direction. Also, I think the combat powers do support story about fighting, and the skill challenge rules are intended to permit a degree of player narrative freedom.

 

[apoptosis]

I haven't looked at the Quest rules yet, but they might go some way in this direction. Also, I think the combat powers do support story about fighting, and the skill challenge rules are intended to permit a degree of player narrative freedom.

I like the challenge rules, i think they were a great addition.

I do wish they could have set up some reward system (action points or second wind or extra use of an encounter power) that would tie into the combat powers to reward the players for their choices in a fight.

Since it is about a group fighting together maybe some house rules that would reward synergistic combat power usage with say additional second winds or such would be cool.

 

[Henry]

Henry is ignoring meeeee

Hong, if you'd post more often, I'd see you.

Duly noted - hong gets a "you da man" from me.

 

[hexgrid]

I've found that encounters, especially non-combat encounters, write themselves. Anything the players choose to interact with *becomes* important, because they've chosen to interact with it. So if they decide o chat up the guards at the gate, the guards at the gate become vehicles for plot information, or tragic victims of the next orc raid, or corrupt cultists looking for sacrificial victims, or whatever. The DMG would have done better to discuss "How to make anything interesting" instead of "Decide what's interesting, and make sure the players don't wander off the rails".

Ahem!

As often as possible, take what the players give you and build on it. If they do something unexpected, run with it. Take it and weave it back into your story without railroading them into a fixed plotline.

 

[Family]

Hong, if you'd post more often, I'd see you.

Duly noted - hong gets a "you da man" from me.

1.) Hong is not ignored 'he' is a ninja and therefore unnoticed.

2.) Hong is male?