"Fun"

[Lizard]

So, what do you do when YOU'VE plotted out this cool fight with Winter wolves and goblins and an ice golem, and your players want to play Baba Wawa and interview every single random faceless NPC in the town?

I've found that encounters, especially non-combat encounters, write themselves. Anything the players choose to interact with *becomes* important, because they've chosen to interact with it. So if they decide o chat up the guards at the gate, the guards at the gate become vehicles for plot information, or tragic victims of the next orc raid, or corrupt cultists looking for sacrificial victims, or whatever. The DMG would have done better to discuss "How to make anything interesting" instead of "Decide what's interesting, and make sure the players don't wander off the rails".

One of my rules of DMing is, "If the players are convinced something exists, they will probably find it." If my plot doesn't have a secret network of underground tunnels, but the players waste half an hour looking for them, they're probably find them. This is the advantage of deep world building -- I know the world, and the rules of it, well enough that I can quickly build anything missing in my head. One reason I like 3x is that I know anything I make up on the fly, I can find mechanics for in the book pretty easily, or interpolate them as needed.

 

[Imaro]

Its not badwrongfunism to acknowledge the limitations of the system. Resource management in D&D (not counting spells) has never been more complex than ticking off iron rations on a character sheet, counting gold pieces, and buying bags of holding. Sometimes these things are necessary, but they're necessary because they serve the larger context of the game. They're NOT fun in their own right. This is why every edition of D&D ever has had more rules for monster-killin' than for buying mundane goods.

I'd have to disagree with you here, I think it depends on the DM.

I've run games where the pressures of running out of water in a desert environment has put a sense of desperation and urgency into an adventure, and even influenced PC's to make choices that led to more interesting play.

Or a game where the PC's would talk to the guards because in the future it gives them connections to call on if they get in trouble or need certain information. In the end, I personally think better advice in the DMG would have been, "instead of skipping over these types of things... use your imagination to figure out if or how they could be fun or interesting for your particular group or your storyline.".

 

[hong]

...but I thought it wasn't all supposed to be about combat?

It's all about ninjae in the end.

Though in all fairness, everyone else - including the people who apparently made the game - seem to be confused as well.

They know perfectly well what they are trying to emulate, namely an action movie.

 

[hong]

So, what do you do when YOU'VE plotted out this cool fight with Winter wolves and goblins and an ice golem, and your players want to play Baba Wawa and interview every single random faceless NPC in the town?

I tell them that the mouseover text fails to discover anything of great interest.

 

[hong]

But don't let anyone suggest that D&D doesn't play the way it used to....

D&D does play the way it used to. You just have to want to play it the way it used to, and noone stops you doing so. You will also be in a minority.

 

[Lizard]

I tell them that the mouseover text fails to discover anything of great interest.

Then if you're dealing with my players, you find yourself staring at an empty table.

 

[Imaro]

It's all about ninjae in the end.



They know perfectly well what they are trying to emulate, namely an action movie.

I'm sorry, I've never seen an action movie that was just fight after fight with no story-line or interaction to connect it (in fact I doubt a movie like this would even hold my attention for over 15 minutes). I mean honestly, if this is the "playstyle" of 4e what separates it from a game like Descent (which by the way now has campaign, out of dungeon, and advancement rules)?

 

[hong]

Then if you're dealing with my players, you find yourself staring at an empty table.

Not that you said anything about your players.

 

[hong]

I'm sorry, I've never seen an action movie that was just fight after fight with no story-line or interaction to connect it

Luckily, the actual DMG text says nothing about fight after fight with no storyline or interaction.

 

[Imaro]

Luckily, the actual DMG text says nothing about fight after fight with no storyline or interaction.

No it just claims this is the boring stuff and should be skipped. If I'm skipping every NPC that doesn't fit into my well crafted story how do players ever make the decision to form a connection with NPC's or determine who are their allies or enemies (outside of who I have determined beforehand).