Game Day mini = Spined Devil

[ZoA2]

Hyperbole much? There's a big leap in logic from "DMs can add minor plot-related abilities to monsters" to "DMs should make every single monster from scratch".

Quite the opposite, it is reasonable extension of his logic. Purpose of MM is to provide ready to use (or close to that) monsters and NPCs for DM. In another words purpose of MM is to spare DM of additional work and if 4e MM turns out to be less capable of doing that for certain types of encounters or monsters or NPCs compared to previous edition there is a reason to talk about diminished utility of such product. Therefore justifying such diminish utility by saying “you can do it yourself” simply begs the question why MM is necessary to begin with because it exist exactly to avoid that “do it yourself “ part.

To save the DM time. It takes less time to grant a pre written devil a minor illusion or shapchanging trick than it takes a DM to write up an entire monster based around a minor illusion or shapchanging trick.

Yes, but point is exactly that both of those take DM’s time and therefore both of those should be done by WofC to minimise DM’s work. Presence of NPC and non-combat abilities on a monster does not diminish monster’s combat utility in any way, so I don’t see legitimate reason for WotC to leave them out (of course to keep things easier to handle those abilities could be listed in separate, non-combat, part of monster stats, as Wormwood suggested)

 

[Mad Mac]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drpr/20071012a

I think Wizards is leaning more towards stuff like this playtest in 4E. Was the "woman" tied to the stake disguising herself with a spell straight out of the PHB with a set caster level, effect and duration? Probably not. Is there a new spell that turns commoners into Zombies and Goblins? Nah. It's all handwaving.

While I don't doubt some creatures will mantain "non-combat" abilities not listed in the statblock, ultimately you don't need rules for this sort of stuff most of the time. If you need your arch-villian to infiltrate and seduce the royal court, one agent at a time, it's not like you need to roll a bunch of charm person and diplomacy checks between adventures. He just does it. If he needs to open a portal to the abyss via the recently assembled McGuffin of Plot Furtheration, that's just what he does.

 

[Stormtalon]

What if?

Nethersight, lets you see into the Shadowfell at the same time as the real world. Objects are supposed to exist in both right. It lets you see like darkvision, plus lets you see creatures that are only in that plane of existance normaly.

and What if?

The same type of vision was available to Fey. Fey creatures could see into the Feywild and this could replace low-light vison for elves.

Opens up awhole new slew of options for using the planes if party members are contantly looking into one of them. Makes the sometimes weird mechanics of low-light interacting with torches and stuff go away. Also makes the black and white vison of Darkvison a better fit.

While I (reluctantly) agree that a devil might not be able to see into the Shadowfell, I think vision/senses that would allow perception of one of the two "nearby" realms would be absolutely incredible. Give the Eladrin & Elves (ehh, it fits the current names but it's still sorta 'meh') Feysight & maybe the Tieflings Felsight(?) (note, I'd also make "Felsight" a feat option for Humans) and then you have some interesting RP possibilities, and hit some of the old archetypes of "those who can see things beyond mortal ken."

Furthermore, you could go even farther along these lines (and in the process blatantly rip off Tolkien in spades), and create objects that have a beneficial effect on the mortal plane but which force you to see into one of the others -- and make you visible there in the process (like, say, a semi-cursed Ring of Invisibility that makes you see and be seen in the Shadowfell, to pull a totally random idea out of a hat).

Darkvision would still be for Dwarves and other subterranean dwellers, of course.

 

[Paraxis]

Hmm...yeah the whole nethersight being conected with Shadowfell might not fit well afterall.

But in thinking more about it, this Felsight idea to see into the Shadowfell would explain why skeletons and such see without having eyes, if all undead had this form of vision and have spells like invisibility to undead just mask your presence in the Shadowfell plane.

The more I think of this the more I like it...if something like this is not in the core rules, I think I might have the start of a new house rule.

A feat to let kids say "I see dead people" is a cool idea too.


Ok back to Nethersight if it's not looking into the Shadowfell, maybe its a term for Unlimited Darkvison or a form of vison that sees past Magical Darkness as well as normal Darkness.

 

[jasin]

Anybody got any idea why melee is "+9 vs AC" while spines are "+9 Dex vs Ref"?

 

[blargney the second]

I wonder if the Nethersight is why his Spot is higher than his Perception.
-blarg

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Anybody got any idea why melee is "+9 vs AC" while spines are "+9 Dex vs Ref"?

My guess:

Melee works as normal, and lets you know which "Defense" it goes against.

The spines are a special ability, and therefore tell you:

1. What the attack bonus is
2. What the relevant ability is, in case it changes
3. The Defense it attacks

Accordingly, you might see an ability in the future that looks like:

Soul Drain: +8 Wis vs. Fort, etc.

 

[Paraxis]

I wonder if the Nethersight is why his Spot is higher than his Perception.

Possible the line is :

Senses: Nethersight, Perception +5

and then under skills :

Skills: Spot +10

So maybe nethersight gives +5 to Spot.

I don't think Perception is a skill it sounds more like a special ability though.

So I read it as it has BOTH Nethersight (?????) and Perception (A special ability that adds +5 to Spot skill checks)

My take anyways.

EDIT*
Added this thought on the Hit Points.

47 - 12(6*2 from Con)=35 Then we have a comment about "What Hit Dice?" from another Blog entry, and maybe we get 10 (Double first level for monsters)+25 (5*5 from levels) =35

Math works, I don't think dice or any even/odd mechanic will be used anymore in 4E.

 

[Szatany]

The AC disparity is interesting. Probably the AC value uses a slightly different formula since most attacks will target AC? Hit points might be that a skirmisher gets 5 hp as base, and an additional (5 plus Con bonus) times level hp? Bloodied, which we heard before, is a part of the stat block.

AC is higher by 2 points than the other defenses. Str modifier is also higher by 2 than all other abilities. I hope that means that AC is Str-based.

 

[dude189]

Again, the stat system looks exactly like 3e

a lot of people are still looking at the bottom and thinking that those are the monsters stat bonuses. its just their untrained skill bonuses.

this monsters attribute stats and bonuses are

Str 19 - +4
Con 14 - +2
Dex 15 - +2
Int 15 - +2
Wis 14 - +2
Cha 15 - +2

its exactly the same as 3e

anyways, AC will be 10+level+armor bonus, which in this case will be natural armor bonus of +4.

10 + 6 + 4 = 20

The other defense stats work the same, except use stat bonuses instead of an armor bonus.

10 + level + stat bonus

As for the attacks, and why both melee and the range attack have the same +9 bonus is because the devil is attacking twice with his claws giving his melee attacks a -2 which evens them out with his range bonus.

removing stat bonuses and dual wielding penalties, his remaining attack bonus for both melee and range is +7

the attack progression will have to keep up with AC, to to extend the *sweet spot* which is what they are going for.

This means the base attack will be based off of level just as the ac is.

so our attack bonus looks like this

stat + level - dualwield if applicable(-2) +?

"?" = 1

I believe this bonus comes from the skirmisher role. A Brute Role might give a +3, hard to say without more information.