Game Design Masterclass: Going Diceless

While they are pretty (oh so pretty) you don’t actually need dice to play a role-playing game. If we don’t mind the Gamemaster fiddling with results to improve the story (when players do it, that’s just cheating) how much do we really need to roll something? Some GMs say they only roll as they love the sound the dice make. So if you are fudging anyway, why not go the whole hog and be open...

While they are pretty (oh so pretty) you don’t actually need dice to play a role-playing game. If we don’t mind the Gamemaster fiddling with results to improve the story (when players do it, that’s just cheating) how much do we really need to roll something? Some GMs say they only roll as they love the sound the dice make. So if you are fudging anyway, why not go the whole hog and be open about not using dice at all?

amberdicelessrpg.jpg

In 1991Eric Wujcik went that far with the Amber Diceless RPG, a game that blew my mind when I first came across it. Amber is based on the series of novels of the same name by Roger Zelazny. In the setting, only the feudal castle Amber and its lands are truly real, and the many other worlds (ours included) are mere reflections of it. The noble family who rule compete constantly for control of Amber, as nothing else in the multiverse truly matters.

While there are no dice used in Amber, it’s not entirely fair to call it systemless or entirely narrative. Resolving conflicts is done by comparing the attributes of those involved (Warfare, Psyche, Strength and Endurance). But these are not usually rated by a number. For the most part they are rated between the player characters as who is the best. Unless someone cheats in some way, the best person will win any conflict. When it comes to NPCs the GM simply decides secretly if the NPC is better or worse than the PC in question.

It’s quite common in narrative games for players to get stuck for ideas. One thing dice are good at doing is forcing a result. But Amber offers some basic options players can use to get clues about how good their opponent is. For instance, in a sword fight you might begin by declaring you are going all out to defend yourself. If you seem to be holding your own you might be pretty evenly matched. If your opponent is still landing the odd blow you are clearly in trouble. Every scene is a back and forth between players and Gamemaster until a conclusion is reached.

While Amber can be a little tricky to find these days, the system was revised by Rite Publishing with a new setting as Lords of Gossamer and Shadow. But another well known adaptation of the system is Jenna Moran’s Nobilis where each character is the embodiment of an aspect of the universe. Nobilis takes the system another step further by putting some points to the character’s attributes. This lets you ask a simple question each time they face opposition – ‘do you want to win enough to spend a point?’ Doing so is pretty much a guarantee of a win, but you only have so many points to use. There are also elements of diceless play to be found in many other dice-based RPGs that tilt towards the narrative like Smallville and Invisible Sun.

You may have noticed by now that the characters in most diceless games are a little more powerful than most player characters. They are often Gods or Lords and Ladies of the universe. It’s this level of play that suits diceless best as it allows you to ignore all the small stuff. Scenes are about shaping the universe not picking a lock. You can assume the characters are all potent enough to just worry about the big issues where it is worth spending their points or working out how to deal with the bad guy.

While a diceless game is a lot of fun, it will test your imagination whether you are a player or a Gamemaster. It can take some getting used to. In most games the players are used to the dice defending them from the Gamemaster. The GM sets a problem and the players escape it by succeeding at a dice roll. While it might not always look like it, dice are the player’s only defense.

When you first play a diceless game it is easy to fall into the trap of playing as you would with dice, and just making up what happens. This generally leads to the GM doing all the talking and trying to figure out results for everything. If a pit opens up in front of the characters, who falls in? You can’t roll so it’s the GM deciding to potentially kill your character off. There are no dice to protect you by making a Dexterity roll or the like.

So the key to running a diceless game is actually player input. Instead of waiting for the GM to interpret the dice roll the players should be the ones to decide what happens to their characters when presented with a situation. When presented with a pit, one might describe leaping across, but another might decide they’ve almost fallen in and are clinging onto the edge for dear life.

It’s a tricky style of play to master as it goes against a lot of habits you never knew you’d picked up rolling dice. For this reason alone it is a good idea to try it at least once and see how your group reacts. It can be liberating but also a lot of hard work. Without any clues from the dice as to how you’ve done, you have to make those decisions yourself.

While diceless might not be for everyone – and I’m not suggesting it’s innately any better than using dice – it is also a good way for a player to train as a GM. It lets the player invest in the story and make decisions about their character’s adventure that are usually left to the GM. Essentially it teaches how to play with everyone writing the story as a whole, rather than just their character’s part in it. As a final note, it’s also a pretty good way to play an RPG on a long car journey where you don’t have a surface to roll dice on and the driver can’t keep looking at their character sheet.
 

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Andrew Peregrine

Andrew Peregrine

Mournblade94

Adventurer
I've read the Amber books, and the Amber rules. I almost had a brush with Amber, but it never hit actual play. And it might have been because I was too good at bidding.

One summer in college we did a 17-18 person camping trip for a week at a state park. We were going to do an Amber one shot one night and we had like 8-10 people interested. So we did a bidding process so we could come up with characters during the afternoon. I seem to remember that there's ranks 1-4 and that's as low as it goes - you can have people tied at rank 4. (Or maybe that was this DM for so many players.) Anyway, with this many players the DM was also being a little funky with bidding. Everyone did a secret bid and spent the points. If you were in the top 4, there was another secret round where you could raise your bid if you wanted to.

I knew with this many people bidding you couldn't be in the top 4 for everything so I planned to purposefully lose one and only bid a single point. So the first round we bid, and everyone was getting the feel and I ended up winning, taking 1st rank. The second one comes up, it's more aggressive which I expected from the talk about how I sorta lucked into 1st cheaply (which I did, but also a bit of reading people). And I ended up taking 1st again because I knew I had a big reserve with my plan. Then came a crazy bidding round that I bid my single point, ending up with Rank 4 Psyche. And it was the most expensive round yet, both from seeing the escalation of the earlier rounds plus some people wanted something that wasn't a 4. Got really expensive. Then the last round ... but three rounds of bidding more and more cleaned some out, and others wanted to save enough points to get cool other stuff since they didn't have great ranks, leaving me able to take 1st rank again.

That's right, an easily controlled 4th rank psyche with 1st rank everything else. Perfect recipe for GM mayhem.

I think I had enough points left to walk the pattern, with taking on some Bad Stuff. Or maybe it was a partial pattern. I don't remember, it was bargain basement time.

At the time I was 19 or 20 and felt really cool about how I managed to get all of those 1st ranks. But with only 9 ranks that weren't a 4 up for grabs among 8-10 people, and I had not just a full third of them but the best third of them, I think everyone else may have been less than enthused about their characters. And the game never ended up taking off that night.
I never knew you played this. You're the first person in my circle of gaming group extended friends I know that played this. Who did you play this with?

I just remember the same copy of this sitting on the Shelf at TIME WARP for years.
 

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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
There is no extra attention that needs to be given to a player with bad stuff beyond the general notion that they won’t be as lucky in situations or as favorable in the reaction of others.
Technically the attention is to the character.
Not sure how it will not inevitably create extra venues of conflict that must be expressed in story ...
 
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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I never knew you played this. You're the first person in my circle of gaming group extended friends I know that played this. Who did you play this with?

I just remember the same copy of this sitting on the Shelf at TIME WARP for years.

We went camping up at Stokes. Karen A. (don't know if you've met her) organized the trip IIRC, with a diverse group of interesting people. We did it more than one summer, not sure which we played Amber. It was several years before we bought the house.

If you ever heard me tell stories of the epic water battles canoeing down the Delaware, those happened on these Stokes trips.
 

Rowan

Explorer
Speaking of diceless games, Everway has a soft spot in my heart. Ran a lot of it back in the late 90's. Still own the boxed set and a copy of the Spherewalker's Sourcebook. Heck have a ton of the cards in a deckbox too!

FYI, I'm publishing a Silver Anniversary Edition of Everway this year to finally get it back into print. Should be running a Kickstarter later this summer.
 

I played in a diceless campaign for a few years in the late '90s and early '00s. I don't remember the details of the system very well (it was a small print-run indy called Persona by Kevin Muñoz). I went into it being quite skeptical, worrying about many of the things I've seen in this thread about it being just "storytelling" or a GM railroad. In actual play, though, it was a lot of fun and not all that different from more traditional RPGs. It was a science-fiction campaign where we commanded our own ship. There was some sort of evil psionic mind controller BBEG who we were always dodging. Lots of factions and politics. Lots of weird alien artifacts and lost colonies. In tone, it was like Firefly (which came out just after we ended the campaign due to the GM moving away).

I don't remember how conflicts were resolved in detail, but I think it had to do with having basic abilities and then finding ways to gain bonuses or apply other abilities. One thing I remember that we enjoyed was that we could really engage with the environment in interesting ways that weren't necessarily codified in the rules, throwing sand in the opponent's eyes and that sort of thing. It felt very creative in that respect.

While there were times when I missed the thrill of the dice, the diceless element did seem to reduce the amount of "slogging" that can happen in dice-driven systems, especially in terms of combat. Combat (whether ship-to-ship or melee) took as long as we needed it too. A tense grand finale took time with lots of back-and-forths. A minor skirmish could be over after a quick description of tactics. You never got into that grind where you needed to whittle down the last HP of the orcs or whatever. (Granted, there are ways to avoid that in diced games too.)

I would try diceless again if I had the opportunity. I know many people who loved Amber, though I never had a chance to play.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I played in a diceless campaign for a few years in the late '90s and early '00s. I don't remember the details of the system very well (it was a small print-run indy called Persona by Kevin Muñoz). I went into it being quite skeptical, worrying about many of the things I've seen in this thread about it being just "storytelling" or a GM railroad. In actual play, though, it was a lot of fun and not all that different from more traditional RPGs. It was a science-fiction campaign where we commanded our own ship. There was some sort of evil psionic mind controller BBEG who we were always dodging. Lots of factions and politics. Lots of weird alien artifacts and lost colonies. In tone, it was like Firefly (which came out just after we ended the campaign due to the GM moving away).

I don't remember how conflicts were resolved in detail, but I think it had to do with having basic abilities and then finding ways to gain bonuses or apply other abilities. One thing I remember that we enjoyed was that we could really engage with the environment in interesting ways that weren't necessarily codified in the rules, throwing sand in the opponent's eyes and that sort of thing. It felt very creative in that respect.

While there were times when I missed the thrill of the dice, the diceless element did seem to reduce the amount of "slogging" that can happen in dice-driven systems, especially in terms of combat. Combat (whether ship-to-ship or melee) took as long as we needed it too. A tense grand finale took time with lots of back-and-forths. A minor skirmish could be over after a quick description of tactics. You never got into that grind where you needed to whittle down the last HP of the orcs or whatever. (Granted, there are ways to avoid that in diced games too.)

I would try diceless again if I had the opportunity. I know many people who loved Amber, though I never had a chance to play.
Somebody who played Pesona Cool.
 

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