Game Mechanics And Player Agency

The concept of player agency is a central pillar of all role-playing games. It is a balancing factor against the omnipotent, omniscient Game Master. For the purposes of this article, we will be focusing on the smaller-scale application of player agency and the role of game mechanics that negate or modify such agency.
The concept of player agency is a central pillar of all role-playing games. It is a balancing factor against the omnipotent, omniscient Game Master. For the purposes of this article, we will be focusing on the smaller-scale application of player agency and the role of game mechanics that negate or modify such agency.


From the very first iteration of Dungeons & Dragons in 1974, there have been mechanics in place in RPGs to force certain decisions upon players. A classic D&D example is the charm person spell, which allows the spell caster to bring someone under their control and command. (The 1983 D&D Basic Set even includes such a possible outcome in its very first tutorial adventure, in which your hapless Fighter may fall under the sway of Bargle and "decide" to let the outlaw magic-user go free even after murdering your friend Aleena!)

It didn't take long for other RPGs to start experimenting with even greater mechanical methods of limiting player agency. Call of Cthulhu (1981) introduced the Sanity mechanic as a way of tracking the player-characters' mental stress and degeneration in the face of mind-blasting horrors. But the Temporary Insanity rules also dictated that PCs exposed to particularly nasty shocks were no longer necessarily in control of their own actions. The current edition of the game even gives the Call of Cthulhu GM carte blanche to dictate the hapless investigator's fate, having the PC come to their senses hours later having been robbed, beaten, or even institutionalized!

King Arthur Pendragon debuted in 1985 featuring even more radical behavioral mechanics. The game's system of Traits and Passions perfectly mirrors the Arthurian tales, in which normally sensible and virtuous knights and ladies with everything to lose risk it all in the name of love, hatred, vengeance, or petty jealousy. So too are the player-knights of the game driven to foolhardy heroism or destructive madness, quite often against the players' wishes. Indeed, suffering a bout of madness in Pendragon is enough to put a player-knight out of the game sometimes for (quite literally) many game-years on end…and if the player-knight does return, they are apt to have undergone significant trauma reflected in altered statistics.

The legacies of Call of Cthulhu and King Arthur Pendragon have influenced numerous other game designs down to this day, and although the charm person spell is not nearly as all-powerful as it was when first introduced in 1974 ("If the spell is successful it will cause the charmed entity to come completely under the influence of the Magic-User until such time as the 'charm' is dispelled[.]"), it and many other mind-affecting spells and items continue to bedevil D&D adventurers of all types.

Infringing on player agency calls for great care in any circumstance. As alluded to at the top of this article, GMs already have so much power in the game, that to appear to take any away from the players is bound to rankle. This is likely why games developed mechanical means to allow GMs to do so in order to make for a more interesting story without appearing biased or arbitrary. Most players, after all, would refuse to voluntarily submit to the will of an evil wizard, to faint or flee screaming in the presence of cosmic horror, or to attack an ally or lover in a blind rage. Yet these moments are often the most memorable of a campaign, and they are facilitated by behavioral mechanics.

What do you think? What's your personal "red line" for behavioral mechanics? Do behavioral mechanics have any place in RPGs, and if so, to what extent? Most crucially: do they enhance narrative or detract from it?

contributed by David Larkins
 

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No, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] was discussing reaction mechanics in Traveller. Bringing in other mechanics, that only apply to one specific edition of Traveller chargen mechanics in an thinly veiled attempt to disparage those mechanics is a pretty heavy handed tactic that has nothing to do with what is actually being discussed.

IOW, it's disingenuous.

The point that was being made is that social mechanics have existed in some form in RPG's since pretty much day one. Various RPG's have incorporated it in various forms. So, why is this such a bizarre idea in 5e?

I have no problem with social mechanics in 5e. They don't, however, let me as DM tell the players how to play their characters.

Maybe I can say this a different way. NO skill in 5e exists that lets a PC convince an NPC of anything. Instead what happens in my games is the player declares an action to try and convince an NPC to do something thing and I determine if the outcome is uncertain. If it is, I'll pick a attribute check and the player can suggest a useful skill to use with it, and stakes for success and failure will be set. The player can then choose to roll or do something else. The roll determines the outcome according to the stakes (this is often an informal process, there's not formal method I use to establish set stakes, but they're known). A success means the PC convinced the NPC, not that the skill check did. The skill check is just there to let us determine if the action succeeds. It could just as well be for a completely different action declaration.

In this way, social skills are no different from any other skill -- they're useful when uncertainty needs to be resolved due to an action declaration. There's nothing special about social skills, and since pick locks doesn't let me tell a player how to play their characters, I don't see why persuasion does.
 

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A success means the PC convinced the NPC, not that the skill check did.

That's an extremely fine line. I don't think anyone is advocating for a system where you don't actually make any declarations, just skill rolls, and the PC/NPC is convinced to take a particular action. Is that what you are arguing against? Because it looks to me like the system that you are using is pretty much identical to what's being talked about. The only difference being that I don't really have a problem with that same system applying to PC's.
 

That's an extremely fine line. I don't think anyone is advocating for a system where you don't actually make any declarations, just skill rolls, and the PC/NPC is convinced to take a particular action. Is that what you are arguing against? Because it looks to me like the system that you are using is pretty much identical to what's being talked about. The only difference being that I don't really have a problem with that same system applying to PC's.

Where in the play procedures I've presented is there a space where the NPCs declare actions? NPCs are part of the framing of the situation, they have no independent status as actors in the game. The play is: 1) DM narrates the scene, 2) players declare actions, 3) actions are resolved and the scene altered. Repeat. This is the loop, and there's not a spot in there where NPCs declare actions. My NPCs just do things -- give a rousing speech, or try to convince the players to aid them. That's the narration. The players declare actions against that, the narration doesn't declare actions against the PCs.
 

I have no problem with social mechanics in 5e. They don't, however, let me as DM tell the players how to play their characters.

Maybe I can say this a different way. NO skill in 5e exists that lets a PC convince an NPC of anything. Instead what happens in my games is the player declares an action to try and convince an NPC to do something thing and I determine if the outcome is uncertain. If it is, I'll pick a attribute check and the player can suggest a useful skill to use with it, and stakes for success and failure will be set. The player can then choose to roll or do something else. The roll determines the outcome according to the stakes (this is often an informal process, there's not formal method I use to establish set stakes, but they're known). A success means the PC convinced the NPC, not that the skill check did. The skill check is just there to let us determine if the action succeeds. It could just as well be for a completely different action declaration.

In this way, social skills are no different from any other skill -- they're useful when uncertainty needs to be resolved due to an action declaration. There's nothing special about social skills, and since pick locks doesn't let me tell a player how to play their characters, I don't see why persuasion does.

Yeah basically agree with everything said here. Non-magical forms of persuasion are just like persuasion IRL. No matter how rousing the speech, there is no guarantee it will convince everyone, or anyone at all.
 


Where in the play procedures I've presented is there a space where the NPCs declare actions? NPCs are part of the framing of the situation, they have no independent status as actors in the game. The play is: 1) DM narrates the scene, 2) players declare actions, 3) actions are resolved and the scene altered. Repeat. This is the loop, and there's not a spot in there where NPCs declare actions. My NPCs just do things -- give a rousing speech, or try to convince the players to aid them. That's the narration. The players declare actions against that, the narration doesn't declare actions against the PCs.

Just for clarity, when you say NPCs just do things - they do not declare actions, what about casting a spell, attacking...you classify those things as 'doing' and part of the narration/scene framing?
 

Just for clarity, when you say NPCs just do things - they do not declare actions, what about casting a spell, attacking...you classify those things as 'doing' and part of the narration/scene framing?
Yep. Otherwise 5e really would deserve all those 'combat is too easy' complaints.
Of course, it wouldn't be hard to have combat mechanics where the PCs declare actions and it's all resolved based on what they do, not on what the NPCs are doing (which is, again, part of the 'framing') it might seem a little unintuitive at first, it's not that the evil wizard throws fireball, it's that you dive for cover, thus you make a saving throw to resolve your action. :shrug:
 

A lot of folks are deeply invested in and feel very proprietary towards D&D or even just a specific one of it's editions. So acknowledging suckage that way is asking a lot.
D&D is not set in that notion - it has lots of non-combat magic with explicitly spelled(npi)-out effects, including dictating what PCs think/feel/do.
It is loaded with a tremendous amount of inertia from the 20th century, though. For a good 25 years, D&D just didn't change appreciably, while other RPGs evolved into myriad, but still tiny forms, D&D remained the biggest coelacanth in the pond, and saw no need to do things differently.

Didn't change appreciably? Let's see: 1974-1999...
Changing the nature of the attribute modifiers and their ranges.
Addition and Deletion of core classes - thief wasn't in the rules until '76. Nor Ranger, Druid, Assassin, Paladin, Illusionist.
Change of 1d20 based combat from "alternate" to core (even if most used it as core)
Addition of Weapon Proficiencies (in 1E PHB, but not in BX; a variant appears in BECMI's M rules)
Addition of Non-Weapon Proficiencies (in 1E DSG/WSG/OA)
Switch to THAC-0 from strict HD or Class/level.
Nerfs and buffs in many spells between versions... the BX/BECMI Magic Missile is a much more buff spell (1d6+1 per missile) than the AD&D 1E version (1d4+1) especially since AD&D fighters and clerics are tougher (D10 v d8 and d8 v d6) than their BX/BECMI counterparts.
Changing from "All weapons do 1d6" to different dice by weapon?
Altering those weapon stats?
 

Didn't change appreciably? Let's see: 1974-1999
TSR era, yes.

Changing the nature of the attribute modifiers and their ranges.
Addition and Deletion of core classes - thief wasn't in the rules until '76. Nor Ranger, Druid, Assassin, Paladin, Illusionist.
Change of 1d20 based combat from "alternate" to core (even if most used it as core)
Addition of Weapon Proficiencies (in 1E PHB, but not in BX; a variant appears in BECMI's M rules)
Addition of Non-Weapon Proficiencies (in 1E DSG/WSG/OA)
Switch to THAC-0 from strict HD or Class/level.
Nerfs and buffs in many spells between versions... the BX/BECMI Magic Missile is a much more buff spell (1d6+1 per missile) than the AD&D 1E version (1d4+1) especially since AD&D fighters and clerics are tougher (D10 v d8 and d8 v d6) than their BX/BECMI counterparts.
Changing from "All weapons do 1d6" to different dice by weapon?
Altering those weapon stats?
All pretty trivial, really, compared to the changes introduced by 3e, let alone 4e, let alone the changes /back/ re-introduced with 5e.

If you're trying to quibble that there was an early flurry of additions to 0D&D from Greyhawk to Eldritch Wizardry, or some dramatic bloat as 2e was in its death throes, sure, there was.
 
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As you know, I very strongly dislike "low player agency" RPGing (what I would call railroading). But you'll get no argument from me that it is very common, widely advocated in RPG rulebooks (see eg 2nd ed AD&D for one highwatermark), and appears to be very popular.

Organized play and convention play often lead to strongly grasped plots where the only real question is "Did we pass the encounter?"

The railroad can be fun if the illusion of freedom is present - or at least the appearance of sidings on the rails...

My convention game for Star Wars saturday can be summed up into:

Encounter 1: Feral Mounts looking for treats, but which will panic and kill if hurt.
Encounter 2: Scout troopers on Speeder Bikes
Encounter 2A: Ties harass PC's if they steal the speeder bikes
Encounter 3: The base - once the alert goes up, everyone's hostile. until then, the staff try to keep the PC's in the Canteen.
Encounter 3A: the scientist - won't go without his family, but HQ is fine with his death.
Encounter 3B: the family - convince them you're the good guys. Especially while shooting the people feeding them.
Encounter 4: Ties harass vehicles as the PC's leave the base.
 

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