[Game of Death] Therron's Challenge

[reapersaurus]

come on, hammerhead -
i've already gone over this.

the Singh Rager was approved by clockwork on page 2 of the GoD thread on Nov 22nd.
The game started on page 6, on Nov 28th.
It WAS officially added to the rules set.

As for the intent of my objection to the Skittish nerves, it's just a point of order.

As far as I have ever heard since I've been on the boards, one of the common things to hear is someone asking if it's OK to make a Brooch of Shield, or something, and get a +7 to AC for only 2,000 gp's, since that's technically what it would work out to if you follow the item creation rules.

This question is inevitably followed up by multiple people saying almost the same exact thing:
The item creation rules were not intended to be used in a plug-and-play fashion.
A DM should view the power of the item that is fashioned, and price it according to its benefit, not to what the technical cost seems to work out to.

I'm sure the designers of 3E have published pages on this - I seem to remember Monte Cook with a very famous addendum to the 3E rules on his website about item creation....

The Skittish Boots are using the same exact kind of spell as Shield (1st level, short duration, great benefit).
Victim, if you don't see any problem with the Boots, than keep them.
I just thought you'd agree, and have been familiar with that problem of 3E item creation, since you put a ? next to the 2K in your item list.

 

[reapersaurus]

oh, Victim -
How does that nifty battle-armor work?
The charges have to be used, right? (like Bull's Strength, etc)
That's a standard action?
Those work inside the AMF? Boy, that's an incredible perk.

Now what happens when a Dispel is cast at them?
It doesn't make sense that they would be an undispellable spell that's not a spell... ?
Did you have any conclusions about how that all works together?

edit: oh, I've been meaning to say:
props on adding up and detailing out all the spellcaster fees involved in making all that stuff.

I just noticed:
once the AMF is turned on, all the contents of the HHH would return to fullsize, potentially destroying the pack and splaying the contents everywhere....
what happens with the Gloves of Storing? wouldn't they disgorge their contents, too?

oh, if you have any questions about my character, I could post him here, if you'd like, and it would be interesting to hear what seems strange about them - feedback sometimes can be essential.

 

[Victim]

My understanding was that the AMF shut down the dimension portal for extradimensional storage items so they couldn't be used, not that X-dim space was brought into real space. Otherwise, someone could drive by a group of adventurers and destroy lots of stuff just by moving. However, I don't have very much stuff in the bag anyway, so it probably wouldn't take up more than space than is in a normal backpack. I mostly use the item for the free quickdraw of the first AMF stone. That and no adventurer should be without one.

On the other hand, gloves of storing shrink the items and place them in stasis, so items held therein would drop into the user's hands.

The gadgets work in the AMF, have charges, and need a standard action to activate. Using them doesn't provoke an AoO. They can't be countered or dispeled. However, I'd imagine breaking the device would remove its effect. I think they were a pretty good advantage. I errored by not noticing see invis or glitterdust on the power list, though. Basically, gadgets are expensive wands that use item spaces. They can't be dispeled and such, but cost alot, are heavy, etc.


The wordpad Therron (from Dec 19) is the actual one, correct? Is Ki Frenzy supernatural? Hmm, I can't remember if Divine Grace is Supernatural either. Also, how does the free Bullrush attack from Imp. Shield Bash work? Is it modified by bash damage? Also, because Maturak uses AMF extensively, it might be efficient to precalculate his stats without magic.

Here's a start:

--------------------------------------------
STR 16 (20 rage)
DEX 8
CON 12 (16 rage)
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 22

Spd 30
Ini -1

Att: +12/+7/+2
Charging attack:
+16/+11/+6 (+18/+13/+8 rage) and +16/+11 (+18/+13 rage)
Double damage on 1d4+3 (+5 rage) and 1d4+1 (+3 rage)

Normal attack:
+14/+9/+4 (+16/+11/+6 rage) and +14/+9 (+16/+11 rage)
Dmg: 1d4+3 (+5 rage) and 1d4+1 (+3 rage)

AC: 14 (+3 armor, -1 dex, +2 shield) (12 raging); touch 9 (7 rage)

Fort +13 (+14, +16 rage] [+20 or +22 rage with grace]
Will: +11 (+15, +17 rage) [+21, +23 rage]
Ref: +3 ( +2) [+8]

HP 40+36+60+15= 151 (181 rage)
-----------------------------------------------

Well, with the initiative boots, there is no normal price schedule for initiative bonuses that I'm circumventing by basing the item off a spell. Reverse engineering from gloves of dex gives about 600 gp as the base cost. I could almost afford +2 using that. Of course, using a different item would probably give a different price.

 

[Jeremy]

Victim is correct. AMF's on Bags of Holding/Portable Holes/HHH's shut down the portal that the fabric has to whatever space it connects to. It becomes an empty nonmagical bag/blanket.

The gloves though would discharge.

 

[reapersaurus]

Basically, gadgets are expensive wands that use item spaces. They can't be dispeled and such, but cost alot, are heavy, etc.


The wordpad Therron (from Dec 19) is the actual one, correct? Is Ki Frenzy supernatural? Hmm, I can't remember if Divine Grace is Supernatural either. Also, how does the free Bullrush attack from Imp. Shield Bash work? Is it modified by bash damage?

Yeah, I'm familiar with the idea of the Gnome Artificer - I had worked up a Forsaker a while back, and they go hand-in-hand, making a fairly effective combo.

If it's just an expensive substitute for magic, that's one thing.
But with an AMF making them un-dispellable, that kind of changes the equations.

How much would an undispellable Bull's Strength be? Is there such a thing as undispellable effects in 3E?
After thinking about it, it sure seems like a unique rules quirk, and greatly increases the great deal one can get if you purchase the on-the-surface expensive Gnomish Artifacts.

It's just an observation I'm noticing after thinking about it - they're still OK for the combat, just in case you were wondering how I felt about that.

The submitted Therron is the Shaman6 one. (God, the shaman sucks)
I don't know, and was curious about, what Ki Frenzy was. (I'd assume it's similar to Barbarian Rage)
Don't know about Divine Grace.
Shield Bash - the general concensus is that you choose whether to use it when you want, and the Bull Rush is the limited one, where you can't go more than 5'. (I don't see where it would be modified bt bash damage? huh?)

The AMF and HHH stuff sounds all fine.

 

[Victim]

Well, they already were undispellable, since they aren't magical. As for the cost of undispellable effects, using 2 spell blade weapons to become immune to and be able to reflect dispel attempts costs a minimum of 16k. Or you could get immunity to dispels via 2 spellblade enhancements on a shield. Like this one: **+1 Spellblade Spellblade Defending Bashing Large Darkwood Shield of Command 16,257 gp for defensive cost + 32,000 for offensive cost = 48,257 gp.

Hmm. There's nothing in the FAQs about the ability type on divine grace, or ki frenzy. Annoying. We could ask in the rules forum, but I'd rather not generate clutter. I guess they're normal abilities.

Other AMF issues:

Using magical reach to reach into an AMF would mean that the magical reach is suppressed, so you can't really attack. Or something.

 

[reapersaurus]

that sounds right to me.

How bout this one: Can you Trip someone who's flying?
If so, what happens?

And how do you want to handle die rolls, and the map?

 

[Victim]

Hmm. I'd say that you probably could Trip someone that is flying. The actual appearence of the manuever would vary somewhat: at low altitude, the flying character might be hammered into the ground and knocked prone. Other times, the character could just be spun about somewhat and half to spend a move action righting themselves so they can fight properly.

Since we each have copies of the map, we could just keep track of character coordinates. With 2 flying characters, the z axis is going to be as important as anything on the map, so updating the map isn't as useful. I think it would be a good idea to include current coordinates of all characters with each move, so no one has to dig back too far for locations, and so that if someone messes up with the coordinates of the other characters, it's immediately obvious.

I don't really care how we handle rolls. We could just roll them ourselves. I think Play by Web has a roller that records the rolls to prevent cheating. There are probably other good methods too.

 

[reapersaurus]

it all sounds good to me.
when do you want to start, soon-to-be-Victim? <--just some good natured ribbing/trash-talk

man, that AMF is going to cause some problems....

 

[Victim]

I guess I'm ready to start now. And your team's healing ability might be problematic, depending on how things go.
----------------------------------------
Round 1:

Maturak: X 90, Y 31
Therron: X 89, Y 76
Jade: ? next to Therron, presumeably

Maturak initiative: d20+12; roll 9, total 23
Therron: d20+1
Jade: d20+1
-----------------------------
Hmm. It'd be more convient if Jade and Therron act at the same time, but you're the one running them.

Well, since neither Therron nor Jade can beat 23, I might as well post my first move. Unless you'd rather I went with the +2 initiative booster, in which case Maturak would have a twenty and you could go first. However, Therron winning is still unlikely, and may not affect my action anyway.
-------------------

Reacting with magically enhanced speed, Maturak assess his surrondings. What the heck? I thought we were getting sent back our home worlds. Instead, I'm ... back in the same spot I started? With my weapons back in my gloves. And it looked like someone was down by the bridge too. Maybe the gods had just kicked out the losers and started over. Who was down by the bridge the first time? That 2 shield guy. I'd heard rumors of someone fighting like that - they said he killed a great wyrm in one charge. It seemed wildly exaggerated. At the time. But the damage done to that necromancer! I can't afford to mess up.

With an odd sense of deja vu, Maturak calls forth his stored weapons and begins reaching towards his pack, planning on wrapping his chain around his gauntlet with the same motion that looses the stone around his head. This time, however, things don't work out so smoothly. He has to spend extra time wrapping the chain up, lest it whirl around and smack him in the face.

Still, Maturak is able to grab the stone, and invoke its power. Wrapped in dark cloak of antimagic, he stands and awaits the other challenger.

[Draw spiked chain and javelin (free), put away spiked chain (MEA), draw VP ioun stone (free), cast AMF from stone (standard)
X 90, Y 31]