Game of Thrones or Black Company description?

[MoogleEmpMog]

A d20 (or even OGL) game does not have to be incompatible just because it's radically different.

To whit:

I create a setting and attendant optional rules with no PC spellcasting classes, armor as damage reduction and a massive damage threshold of 0 + Con (ouch!). I remove attacks of opportunity and the combat manuever feats, allowing the others as default parts of the system. I include no monsters and almost no magic items.

If I include six core classes, I'll still make them perfectly compatible with D&D. That means that if you happen to like them and want to stick flaming holy long swords +5 of really big smiting in their hands, gird them in +2 full plate of mad skillz, have them use the D&D rules and turn them loose, they'll be equivalent to the core D&D characters around them.

It doesn't mean flaming holy long swords +5 of really big smiting have to appear in the setting book. It doesn't mean that the setting book can't rail against them and tell the GM the author will come to his house and beat him with a nerf stick if he gives out said swords. It doesn't mean that the setting and the rules aren't grim or gritty.

It just means the classes and feats are portable.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Not terribly difficult, either.

 

[JoeGKushner]

The conversion thing mentioned from Blue Rose is interesting.

I mean, what if you want to run a little bit less gritty AGoT and have more monsters like those sometimes found by the Wall?

Hmmm... now I'm even more anxious to see the product. (I love most of GoO's stuff in terms of apperance, layout, and readability btw.)

 

[JoeGKushner]

To a point I agree.

But it's not these background elements that are of concern.

Take a class that gets bonus feats if it stays in it's favored class, but reduced hit dice but bonus ability boosts every so many levels in addition to standard ability boots.

That compatibility isn't quite so true anymore.

Look at Swashbuckling Adventurers. I love the feats and classes for a Swashbuckling Adventuers game, but would be extremely leery of allowing about 85% of that into a standard D&D campaign.

A d20 (or even OGL) game does not have to be incompatible just because it's radically different.

To whit:

I create a setting and attendant optional rules with no PC spellcasting classes, armor as damage reduction and a massive damage threshold of 0 + Con (ouch!). I remove attacks of opportunity and the combat manuever feats, allowing the others as default parts of the system. I include no monsters and almost no magic items.

If I include six core classes, I'll still make them perfectly compatible with D&D. That means that if you happen to like them and want to stick flaming holy long swords +5 of really big smiting in their hands, gird them in +2 full plate of mad skillz, have them use the D&D rules and turn them loose, they'll be equivalent to the core D&D characters around them.

It doesn't mean flaming holy long swords +5 of really big smiting have to appear in the setting book. It doesn't mean that the setting book can't rail against them and tell the GM the author will come to his house and beat him with a nerf stick if he gives out said swords. It doesn't mean that the setting and the rules aren't grim or gritty.

It just means the classes and feats are portable.

Nothing less, nothing more.

Not terribly difficult, either.

 

[drnuncheon]

I don't know about you but I don't call a 2 in 20 chance combined with the odds of actually rolling enough damage, anywhere near grim and gritty.

I don't know that a 20th level fighter is grim and gritty under any circumstance. I mean, he attacks four times as often as a first level fighter and is capable of some pretty astounding stuff through his feats. Even without magic items he's going to be able to take on hordes of level 1 fighters.

If you want the best warrior in the world to be within a certain range of the average fighting man, lowering the level cap would seem to be one way to do it. 20 levels doesn't have to be a sacred cow.

J

 

[Sandain]

I think that D20 is just fine for GoT with a few minor changes. Combat is dealy, because in my opinion there was noone over 5th level in the books.

If you realise that all the heroes are really low level things make a lot more sense - and of course with combat being deadly with no clerics or healers, and no monsters to exp grind on - exp is hard to come by.

Also I think its a low stat system, probably 3d6 roll once for each stat. Thats why when you get someone with gregors strenght its truely scary.

A 5th level fighter is a brilliant swordsman compared to other trained fighters.

The highest level fighter imho in the series is the Knight of Flowers older brother. The guy that only ever practiced swordplay with 3 other opponents. Because thats what battle is like he says.

Jaime Lannister has decent dex and str and maybe 3-4 levels of fighter and the feats make him a good swordsman. But with an average con, and maybe 20hp sure a heavy crossbow is a threat to him and well placed shot could nearly kill him (critical hit).

Dire Wolves from the north are justifiably feared because they may be 3HD. And capable of killing 3-4 armed men before they succomb to wounds.

Arcane and clerical magic do exist but are just very very rare. And once again - what do they gain exp on? The old guys who look after castles - the ones who wear the chains - they can learn magic. That fire chick is a cleric, maybe 5th level.

So, in summary its a low level, low stat setting where people only really gain arisocrat levels and seldom gain class levels.

 

[maddman75]

Even a 5th level fighter with very unremarkable stats is not going to put his hands up at a peasant boy with a crossbow. The 5th level Jaime would have perhaps 30 hit points, and the crossbow would have no chance of killing him.

D&D does high fantasy good, but for a gritty feel the hit point system must be altered. Not to mention my dismay at the idea of Jaime Lannister or the Clegane brothers only being 5th level. These are the finest knights in the kingdom.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

If nothing else, this thread makes me want to go re-read A Song of Ice and Fire before the new book comes out this year (said as though I actually believe it will happen ... probably).

 

[Sandain]

Even a 5th level fighter with very unremarkable stats is not going to put his hands up at a peasant boy with a crossbow. The 5th level Jaime would have perhaps 30 hit points, and the crossbow would have no chance of killing him.

D&D does high fantasy good, but for a gritty feel the hit point system must be altered. Not to mention my dismay at the idea of Jaime Lannister or the Clegane brothers only being 5th level. These are the finest knights in the kingdom.

You are talking as a player, not as a character. The character doesn't know that a bolt fired point blank has Zero chance of killing him. Even if he knew it wouldn't, would he volunteerily take a massive wound that will take weeks to heal? maybe become infected?

A 5th level fighter is a god among men. Who in real life would you say is 5th level or higher? Iron Mike Tyson? Bruce Lee? I think 10 co-ordinated 01st level fighters could take either - and thats what i'd expect from a 5th level fighter in DnD.

These are merely my opinions - im trying to explain my logic, not pick an argument

 

[maddman75]

I would not apply character levels to any real people. A high level D&D fighter? Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli are the most obvious examples.

As for the character/player issue, part of the point of a licensed game is to emulate the source. If the players, because of the structure of the rules, do not behave as the characters in the source behave then it isn't a very good emulation. Its like if you described a game as having over the top action and superhuman characters, then gave it a gritty system that punished risk taking with severe penalties for failure.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Even a 5th level fighter with very unremarkable stats is not going to put his hands up at a peasant boy with a crossbow. The 5th level Jaime would have perhaps 30 hit points, and the crossbow would have no chance of killing him.

D&D does high fantasy good, but for a gritty feel the hit point system must be altered. Not to mention my dismay at the idea of Jaime Lannister or the Clegane brothers only being 5th level. These are the finest knights in the kingdom.

:\

A 5th level fighter with very unremarkable stats (or even a 20th level fighter with very remarkable stats) will put his hands up at a peasant boy with a crossbow if his massive damage threshold for the surprise round is 1.

Not only can the crossbow kill him, it almost certainly will threaten to do so.

Of course, by the time he's told the boy that he'll only get one shot, Jaime is already past the surprise round and he's not going to die from the crossbow bolt.