D&D General Gamer Stats From White Dwarf in the 80s

Phil on Twitter has posted a few interesting stats from White Dwarf back in the 80s. These include what games were being played in 1987, and a letter about male/female ratios in the same era. Short version: mainly D&D, very few women.

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"Fascinating stuff - what RPGs were being played in the UK in 1987 ... T&T higher than you might've thought. Indiana Jones too!"


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"I know people say women have always been in gaming, and that's true. But this single stat highlights why for many of us seeing a female gamer in the wild was unheard of until the Masquerade began to change things... Average readership of White Dwarf in 1987 was 16.08... Which means they'd now be 48"

 

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Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
Before college I don't think I knew any female players but I could be wrong. This was a bit after the timeline of the survey.

In college, there were some, though definitely a minority. The two main subcultures that seemed to generate female gamers that I recall was goths and theater.

One I recall was kind of a soft goth. She was several years older than us and had a husband (grad student) and young son. Really nice to have her around, though, and she was a good influence to several of us. Eventually she and her husband split up and over the years we'd lost touch. Another gaming buddy of mine who was into Wraith LARP knew many female gamers, many of whom were both goths and into theater. He hung with us because he liked to play TTRPGs. He'd met the girlfriend he had at the time I met him and later met his wife through LARP, though we did play some TTRPGs now and again. She sells goth art for a living and I think they're mostly into reptile rescue in their free time.

Another got into RPGs through theater. She worked at the college's theater as the stage manager but when she was going through theater school, evidently gaming was pretty common. She and one of the other players started dating quite discreetly and are married with several kids all these years later. I'm Facebook friends with him as he's a fellow academic.

I played with a several other women over time. I don't directly play with any now, but in one of my old college buddies' games there are several women players, mostly wives of other players I knew from back when. None are what I'd call from specific "subcultures" that suggest geek interests per se, though many are scientists or academics because that's the circles I ran in.
 

jayoungr

Legend
Supporter
I read somewhere that more girls/women were interested in D&D when it was very new, in the 1970s. But by 1987, it was firmly stigmatized as "that thing that only hopelessly nerdy boys who can't get a date do"--remember, "nerd" wasn't a compliment in 1987--so I'm not surprised that there weren't many female players at that time.

Adding the self-selection factor that you had to also subscribe to White Dwarf to even participate in the survey might skew the results even further.
 

Jay Verkuilen

Grand Master of Artificial Flowers
I read somewhere that more girls/women were interested in D&D when it was very new, in the 1970s. But by 1987, it was firmly stigmatized as "that thing that only hopelessly nerdy boys who can't get a date do"--remember, "nerd" wasn't a compliment in 1987--so I'm not surprised that there weren't many female players at that time.

There was a lot stronger gender segregation of toys and hobbies that happened over that course of time. But one thing that also happened from the mid '70s to the mid '80s was how much younger the player base was as D&D moved into toy stores. D&D was more of a college thing initially. College students can make their own choices.


Adding the self-selection factor that you had to also subscribe to White Dwarf to even participate in the survey might skew the results even further.

True, but I suspect that it's not a terrible representation of the White Dwarf readership. Yes, there are problems with voluntary return by mail surveys but as long as you're not trying to detect subtle trends or extrapolate a ton, they still provide some useful information.
 

Celebrim

Legend
But if one did happen to show an interest in "boys games" they would be bullied unmercifully. Just because you didn't see it happen didn't make it not happen.

But not by geeks. They would have been bullied by other girls, and by their boyfriends, and by the sort of people whose respect and affection they valued. Us nerds (at least those I know) would have been thrilled, but then we were bullied pretty mercilessly as well. We had a couple of cheerleaders come by and try to figure out what we were doing, which in and of itself was something, but it was really darn clear that while some of them were mildly interested, none of them would have risked the loss of social status that came from hanging out with us or taking up a 'nerd hobby'.

There may be some examples of gate keeping activities by gamers, but in my experience they are much rarer (particularly in the period) than gate keeping activities by people outside of the community mocking anyone that wanted to be in it. And, while nothing excuses being a jerk, let's do keep in mind that its highly likely that any nerd gatekeeper is consciously or unconsciously responding to their own abuse, taking a sort of vengeance on the poor innocent person is before them since they can't take vengeance on the person that actually wronged them. Again, not excusing this all too human behavior, because it's sad and jerky and the cause of so much wrong in the world, but just point out that in 1987 being a nerd was a highly oppressed social group in a lot of places.

Heck, as recently as a few years ago I had an out gay gamer tell me that he was 'in the closet' about his gaming because he was afraid of the bullying that would result if people knew he gamed. It sure as heck wasn't gamers he was afraid of being mocked by.

That said, by the early 90's (just 4-5 years after this poll) we seemed to have turned a corner at least in the community I was in at the time. There were a lot more girls willing to own their nerdiness, and mixed gender groups though they weren't yet the norm were not unusual. White Wolf games brought a ton of women into the RPG scene, ironically because IMO they amped up the sexual aspect of the game, making the idea of being a gamer and also being attractive, desirable, and popular something that didn't seem so ridiculous as it did in 1987. I told this story before, but I realized we were in a new frontier when I was in college, and I went to the games shelf in a book store, only to find two high school girls sitting on the floor with WW's 'LA By Night' on the floor between them, flipping through the pages and discussing which of the NPC's in the book was the dreamiest.

Far from normally being gatekeepers keeping the 'icky women' out as has become the stereotype, I bet a lot of women got into gaming because they had a loved one of some sort - brother, father, cousin, romantic partner, romantic partner of a friend - who encouraged them to game. Are there socially dysfunction men in gaming? Sure, stereotypes of nerds being socially dysfunctional often as with many stereotypes have some basis in fact. But I think it's a very biased picture of the history of gaming.
 


Venley

First Post
Perhaps that is true for you Celebrim but I can tell you as a female gamer that
a) I and the first dozen or so women gamers I knew did not come into gaming via boyfriends/fathers etc. That has more commonly been my experience of the past 20 years rather than the first 20 years.
b) I have never been excluded/bullied/assaulted by other women in or about gaming, just by men.
 

Venley

First Post
. But one thing that also happened from the mid '70s to the mid '80s was how much younger the player base was as D&D moved into toy stores. D&D was more of a college thing initially. College students can make their own choices.

That could be part of the difference between what Celebrim remembers and what I do. I started in '79 in the summer vacation between 1st and second year of university. So I was already 19, already working on archaeological sites. And almost all my fellow gamers were (still are for the most part) students or archaeologists. Our minds were already free & we were already nerds/geeks, rather than US schoolkids following their peer pressure.

I returned to uni that autumn and founded the D&D society. Of the 1st 15 members, 3 blokes played C&S, there were 2 women and 5 guys in my group, & 1 woman and 4 guys in the other D&D group.
 

JonnyP71

Explorer
That could be part of the difference between what Celebrim remembers and what I do. I started in '79 in the summer vacation between 1st and second year of university. So I was already 19, already working on archaeological sites. And almost all my fellow gamers were (still are for the most part) students or archaeologists. Our minds were already free & we were already nerds/geeks, rather than US schoolkids following their peer pressure.

I returned to uni that autumn and founded the D&D society. Of the 1st 15 members, 3 blokes played C&S, there were 2 women and 5 guys in my group, & 1 woman and 4 guys in the other D&D group.


That'll be why your experience differs from mine too, I was 12 when I started playing in 1983. Home computers were beginning to appear, and anyone interested in computer games and rpgs was branded geeky - and it was the teenage girls who were the most vocal in their teasing of our nerdiness. Thus if any of them were actually tempted to join in with our games, they wouldn't have dared to for fear of losing face with their peers. (Teenagers of both sexes can be brutal at times to any who don't fit in!)
 

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