Gamers keeping Shabbat

[HalWhitewyrm]

Changing poster ID cause I finally remembered the password to my main EN World ID, which is this one.
Okay, replying to a bunch of posts below...

But my guess is you wouldn't be the only Jewish gamer, even if you're the only one with a kippah. I know of at least one person who is in the RPG industry who is Jewish and goes to conventions.

Well, I know there are many of us. It's just that it's usually only Orthodox Jews who wear a kippah all the time. Then again a hat also counts, so who knows. I am Sephardic, so I don't wear my tzitzit outside; if I just wear a hat no one would know the difference. Still, the thought of a d20 kippah is pretty cool.

Oh, and there is kosher sushi; there is a kosher sushi restaurant not far from my synagogue that I just love!

Originally posted by mythago
You could probably game if you walked to the gaming location, didn't bring any gaming items, didn't write anything down, didn't turn on any lights...but that's kinda missing the point, I think.

Kinda. Not to mention getting too legalistic instead of going for the spirit of the rules (now who said that RPGs don't teach valuable lessons?).

Originally posted by mythago
I'm not shomer Shabbos (bad Jew! No mitzvah! ), but if I were I could probably get our gaming group to accomodate me. I don't eat treyf, and they've gone to extra mile to make sure that, say, when the group postgame meal is roast pork, that there's another entreé for me. (I didn't ask them to do this, btw, they volunteered).

My group is slowly learning that I am Jewish (I used to be less Orthodox up until this year), so they need to digest that first. I usually just take my own food, and most munchies are kosher, so it's no biggie. It's eating at GenCon, for example, that will be a challenge.

Originally posted by MEG Hal
And I would totally buy a d20 kippah.

Cool. That's 2 on order. I wonder if there is someone who could make them...

Originally posted by MEG Hal
If there is interest, I set up the times for demo's etc at the cons...we could have some at times that would benefit those who do practice a more orthodox version of the jewish faith. i would just need to make sure they are filled so we would have a full game.

Thanks a lot. I will definitely keep this present and in mind for the near future.

Originally posted by Rav
I know very little of the Jewish faith. The Netherlands used to have a large population of jews due to more or less being the first country to have some form of religious freedom in western Europe.

Indeed. Many of the Sephardic Jews of Spain, following the expulsion of 1492, settled in the Netherlands. Many great sages and thinkers came from the Sephardim of Holland. I was in Amsterdam in 01 and got to see a part of the rich Jewish heritage of that city. Quite incredible.

Originally posted by Rav
Anyway, what I was interested in (sorry for the highjack) is how detailed is the holy text, the Talmud? The previous poster already stated that it is not allowed to throw dice or move miniatures or write (or is it just tracking game related objects?) on Shabbat. I find this amount of detail amazing for such an ancient text (how old is it exactly anyway?)! How does the Talmud read? Is the message interwoven with stories like the bible, or is it more like legislation?
Just asking questions, not trying to offend anybody.

It is never offensive to ask questions.

The Talmud is a large collection of tomes written in the 5th and 6th century by the Jews of Babylon (there is a Talmud of Jerusalem, but those classes are next year and I won't tell you of what I don't know yet). The Talmud is a strange type of book in that it shows various layers of argument and discussion between various rabbis and sages. So you don't get the final, agreed decision; you get the biblical passage or mishnah (a kind of traditional tale that gives further info on biblical events), plus various layers of commentary, either on the original passage, or on earlier commentary. It is like listening in on a 1500 year-old classroom where sages are arguing back and forth. From these comments and teachings (and from many other sources some I do, and some I don't know yet about), the rabbis have interpreted the law for the times in which they lived. So the Talmud says nothing about miniatures (dice may be mentioned, I don't know yet), but interpretations have been made for modern times covering topics such as board games, and you can infer certain things from that.

It is incredibly fascinating to figure out if you like to study. If not, you can just ask the rabbi and follow his teachings.

Sorry for the highjack. More replies in the next post.

 

[garyh]

To me, Shabbat is a day of relaxation and enjoyment. And to me, gaming qualifies as that. But I'm Reform.

High Holy Days is another issue entirely. Nothing owuld keep me from temple then.

 

[Paladin]

i bet you paladin and paladin wife could help here

If y'all would really like to get one made out of one of our fabric patterns, we could make one. The embroidery shouldn't be a problem either. Anyone interested, hit the little blue e-mail button below.

 

[garyh]

Oh, put me down for another d20 kippah if these get made.

 

[Sialia]

Actually, gmaing did help me to understand the Talmud better, once.

I had always heard that scholars were capable of reading and even memorizing the entire Talmud, and, I admit, I was sceptical about that.

I mean, it's how many volumes? It's huge. Really huge. And complex. Vastly complex.

And then there was one day that Bandeeto and Piratecat and Sagiro sat down to discuss some fine point of D&D rules lawyering.

I cannot recall the subject. Perhaps it was the effect of the spell reverse gravity--I remember that was a long afternoon.

Anyway, the point is, that they sat there and cited chapter and verse of three editions of Dungeons and Dragons, PHBs, DMGs, auxiliary supplements, Dragon magazine articles, Tolkien and I-can't-remember-what-all-else for about two hours. With page numbers. I mean, they could quote chapters and often page numbers from memory, without having to pull the books off the shelves to look them up. They bickered over the interpretations, and corrected each other's citations.

If you've ever sat in on a Talmudic discussion, or read one, it was remarkably familiar looking.

And what I realized is, certain types of brains really do love to memorize vast, compex sets of interacting logic. For fun. Because it is a delight.

 

[HalWhitewyrm]

Now you know 3. (Working our way towards a minyan.)

Woohoo! Let's get the gamer's minyan together on Shabbat morning at Gen Con.

I am a Reform Jew, so I do have less restrictions. However, I view Shabbat as a day of rest and peace. For example, while I do game and write, I try to do so in ways that do not constitute work for me. My advice is to follow the dictates of your faith and your conscience.

Precisely, which is why I don't say anything to my Reform or Conservative friends and I know they, likewise, won't say anything to me; we each follow the path that is ours to follow.

I have seen at least one gamer with a kippah at Gen Con. So you should not feel uncomfortable. Most people at Gen Con are quite nice.

I went to Gen Con in 2001, so I agree. I never thought I would feel uncomfortable at all; most of the time I forget I have my kippah on.

You might want to check out the information on Indianapolis at http://www.thedociverse.com. I seem to recall that there is a kosher deli fairly near the convention center. I hope to make the convention this year.

Cool, thanks for the link. I did some searching and found 2 Orthodox synagogues in the downtown Indy area, including a Sephardic one, which makes me happy. I still got to figue out the details, but it's good to know the options are there.

I would love a d20 kippah. (I have seen Chicago Bulls kippahs, by the way.)

Okay, we need to get these kippahs made!

Shalom aleichem (Loosely translated "Peace unto you.")

Aleichem Shalom.

Originally posted by mythago
So do we argue now about whether I count? But it would be very cool to get a minyan together one of these GenCons...

Why wouldn't you count? It would be interesting indeed to have minyan at Gen Con...

Originally posted by Sialia
The thing is, in my opinion, whether or not specifically prohibited by Jewish law, most gaming just doesn't feel Shabbastik.
[SNIP]
Both gaming and religious observance are important to me. Neither should be done on autopilot.

I think Sialia has hit it right on the head for me. But again, for me. Each Jew must do what is right for him/her, and no one has the right to tell them they are wrong--that is between them and G-d.

Thanks for all the replies. This has been a great topic so far; I look forward to more great conversation.

And we really need to look into getting those d20 kippahs done, and getting minyan at Gen Con.

 

[Sialia]

Mind you, if we were at Gencon hanging out together (unlikely that I will be able to travel this summer, but it's bound to happen eventually), and the parsha lent itself to it, I would have no objection to, say, viewing a schematic of the walls of Jericho and considering the strategic problems of attack and defense . . .

Unless Mythago and I have to go sit on the other side of the Mechitzah. We'd get into trouble over there, and that's no doubt.

 

[HalWhitewyrm]

Oh, put me down for another d20 kippah if these get made.

Okay, I think these kippahs just HAVE to be made!
Who knew I'd start a trend! That is so not me.

 

[garyh]

Okay, I think these kippahs just HAVE to be made!
Who knew I'd start a trend! That is so not me.

Ya know, as mentioned above, I converted. I still don't have ANY kippah, since none have ever really "called" to me. But d20 does the trick.

 

[Paladin]

Okay, I think these kippahs just HAVE to be made!
Who knew I'd start a trend! That is so not me.

We're looking for a pattern now.