I mean, yeah, me too, otherwise I wouldn't stick around with RPGs long enough to even think about any of this. I'd just bounce off my first couple of campaigns.That said, I do have a lot of tolerance, as a player, with being in the dark.
It's not really GM taking pitty, it's just how the adventure is written. The "cutscene" segment is a breather between two very intense gauntlets, an opportunity for both the players and the characters to relax a bit. And it's a Warhammer game, of course it needs a grand gothic cathedral.I kind of don't like it when the GM takes pity and then just gives the next clue; I think failure can be a fun story option.
I'm not a big fan of cutscenes in RPGing. But I agree it serves everyone better if the GM tells the players what is up for grabs and what isn't.There's a segment that is pretty much a big long cutscene and I know that it's a big long cutscene where nothing of note can be done — so I don't even try to do anything of note and can focus on little things. Is my gal humbled and awestruck by a glorious cathedral devoted to the God-Emperor and will spend her time there in a constant prayer, taking the chance to attone for all the previous and future sins in a holy place where He might actually listen? Or is she wandering around in her tasteless but expensive garb, admiring lavishly decorated building with a sense of amusement, giggling at the reactions monks give her? Or maybe in her paranoia, she will suspect everyone, even in this sacred palace, of heresy and fake faith, looking for clues that aren't there?
Ultimately, it doesn't matter. PCs will be just handed the next clue in the morning, but expression is still cool!
Another player, who didn't know that it's nothing but a cutscene, spent the whole session trying to look under every rock, and was very frustrated he couldn't find anything. If the GM just bluntly said that he'll never find any traces, regardless of his actions or rolls, I reckon the guy would have a much better time.
I found myself generally enjoying limited "bursts" of real agency, but only when I know when those happen. But maybe it's because I have a soft spot for Dark Heresy and the GM is hot, so maybe I'd enjoy the game regardless of anything, huh.I'm not a big fan of cutscenes in RPGing. But I agree it serves everyone better if the GM tells the players what is up for grabs and what isn't.
I don't understand why default GMing culture is to keep that stuff secret, so that players spend time faffing about pointlessly.
Whats really interesting is how the pillars of D&D are viewed. The social pillar, for example, seems to fall into that Tarrot level of interpretation mentioned in the OP. Most folks are ok with that to some various degrees. However, the combat pillar seems to be much more rule exact driven. The "game" here is more of a focus and the stakes seem much more tangible. Exploration lands somewhere in the middle.
I think I see what you are gettig at, but I think I still have to strongly disagree with the generality of this claim. I can agree that if you have a scenario where a player can decide between wining and story, then there is clearly at odds. And this might in essence very often be the case for TTRPG scenarios.More seriously, creative expression (storytelling) and skill expression (overcoming challenges) are at inherent odds with each other
When I talk about "creative expression" I mean the process of creation, of expressing an idea or feeling through something. English is far from being my first language, so maybe there's a better term, I don't know.I think I see what you are gettig at, but I think I still have to strongly disagree with the generality of this claim. I can agree that if you have a scenario where a player can decide between wining and story, then there is clearly at odds. And this might in essence very often be the case for TTRPG scenarios.
However this do not need to be the case. For one thing given a realy difficult scenario with a very large option space, there are usually room for signifificant creative expression in how you decide to approach the problem. And as far as I know it is generally recogniced that high level of creativity is often rewarded by high chance of success via the DM fiat mechanism of traditional TTRPGs.
It is an important disctinction, but I am talking exclusively about the player. In most kinds of stories there will be challenges for the characters to overcome, especially in our euro-centric (or northamerico-centric, I guess?) world.Another important nuance here is the difference between in story characters overcoming challenges, and the player overcoming challenges
Your Storyboard sounds awesome and right up my alley, can I have a link?
Makes sense. I tend to run social encounters that will have a delayed impact. The players are never quite sure how the interaction went unless they roll/RP well or poorly. Not always, of course, but I tend to run a lot of faction play. My campaigns are intricate and nuanced. All this changes how social encounters are seen and played, IME.I've found that the need for rules rises in conjunction with the players' fear of loss.
D&D's extensive combat rules tell me that the loss players fear is the loss of their character, significantly.
If you could flub a Persuasion check and get your character killed or permanently unplayable or something, we'd want a lot more rules around that check.
If you were immortal in combat, it'd probably be fine to just roll d20 + level to see how quickly you kill those goblins.
Fact is, a failed social encounter can sometimes be more fun than a successful one. There's usually very little to lose there.
“It is reasonable to calculate that if a fair player takes part in 50 to 75 games in the course of a year he should acquire sufficient experience points to make him about 9th to 11th level, assuming that he manages to survive all that play...As BLACKMOOR is the only campaign with a life of five years, and GREYHAWK with a life of four is the second longest running campaign, the most able adventurers should not yet have attained 20th level except in the two named campaigns. To my certain knowledge no player in either BLACKMOOR or GREYHAWK has risen above 14th level.”