Games that are fun, but need a one-in-a-million GM
- Thread starter Tsyr
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Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
WEG
My problem with WEG was that it felt almost too easy. That seemed to me to aggravate the problems players have with licenses.
Seemed to me that the system tended to dampen player initiative and creative. It felt like once the players had done everything that felt like they should be able to do from the movies and fiction and what not they couldn't figure out what else was cool to do from the world descriptions in the rules.
Maybe that sort of thing is just an issue for me, but I hate running things in which the players aren't a really active part of the input.
I suppose Mage is kind of the other end of that effect. Too much player input demanded and dealt with. Seemed like most GMs either couldn't handle properly eccentric players and couldn't develop them when the players wouldn't come up with them.
Another White Wolf fiasco was Mummy. That was such a neat concept for characters and storyline. Noone I knew ever played it though, and they hated me trying to play one.
I think they were too noble and complex for an RPG.
As much as we complain about evil being simple in most RPGs, noone deals well with the idea of complicated transcendent good.
I think the prior comment about St. Francis and banality sums it up nicely.
My problem with WEG was that it felt almost too easy. That seemed to me to aggravate the problems players have with licenses.
Seemed to me that the system tended to dampen player initiative and creative. It felt like once the players had done everything that felt like they should be able to do from the movies and fiction and what not they couldn't figure out what else was cool to do from the world descriptions in the rules.
Maybe that sort of thing is just an issue for me, but I hate running things in which the players aren't a really active part of the input.
I suppose Mage is kind of the other end of that effect. Too much player input demanded and dealt with. Seemed like most GMs either couldn't handle properly eccentric players and couldn't develop them when the players wouldn't come up with them.
Another White Wolf fiasco was Mummy. That was such a neat concept for characters and storyline. Noone I knew ever played it though, and they hated me trying to play one.
I think they were too noble and complex for an RPG.
As much as we complain about evil being simple in most RPGs, noone deals well with the idea of complicated transcendent good.
I think the prior comment about St. Francis and banality sums it up nicely.
Celebrim
Legend
"Uh... my character is Lance, and he lived on Tatoine, until he found out he had jedi powers..."
Yeah, I've had that experience. One group I played in had a bounty hunter with a wookie companion. But it didn't matter. It was still fun to hear the wookie howling and grunting to communicate.
I played an ex-career Imperial Naval Officer, a man who really really believed in the Empire and who slowly saw his dreams of it crushed in front of him, as inferior cronies passed over him for political reasons and the Bureacrats became not less but more corrupt as time passed. The longer he fought the rebels, the more he admired their bravery, their tenacity, thier honor, thier tactical creativity, and all the things he saw fading in his beloved empire. Finally, as a bitter old man, he had the misfortune (or maybe luck) of being in command of a corvette class picket ship that was overran by two full squadrons of X-Wings. He was going to go down with the ship, but a junior officer of good character, a boy really like a son to him, slugged him and put him in a life boat. Afterwards, he was discharged dishonorably from the service, being blamed for the lose of the ship. The younger officer talked him into joining the Rebels, but was killed by ImpSec when they tried to make thier first contact. The old man was the party spokesmen and had a tendency to be patronizing to younger party members, always assumed he was in command whether he was or not, and had the annoying tendency to become highly insulted and launch into angry speaches if you dare say anything evil about the Emperor. ("He's a good man, a spiritual man, but you got to understand, he's become a bit of an aesthetic. He is so good hearted and trusting that he can't imagine just how bad it has gotten outside the walls of his palace. All of these years of bloodshed lay heavy on his heart; his advisors fill his ears with lies. Our real fight is with the Bureacracy!")
*sigh*
WEG's SW was great.
Yeah, I've had that experience. One group I played in had a bounty hunter with a wookie companion. But it didn't matter. It was still fun to hear the wookie howling and grunting to communicate.
I played an ex-career Imperial Naval Officer, a man who really really believed in the Empire and who slowly saw his dreams of it crushed in front of him, as inferior cronies passed over him for political reasons and the Bureacrats became not less but more corrupt as time passed. The longer he fought the rebels, the more he admired their bravery, their tenacity, thier honor, thier tactical creativity, and all the things he saw fading in his beloved empire. Finally, as a bitter old man, he had the misfortune (or maybe luck) of being in command of a corvette class picket ship that was overran by two full squadrons of X-Wings. He was going to go down with the ship, but a junior officer of good character, a boy really like a son to him, slugged him and put him in a life boat. Afterwards, he was discharged dishonorably from the service, being blamed for the lose of the ship. The younger officer talked him into joining the Rebels, but was killed by ImpSec when they tried to make thier first contact. The old man was the party spokesmen and had a tendency to be patronizing to younger party members, always assumed he was in command whether he was or not, and had the annoying tendency to become highly insulted and launch into angry speaches if you dare say anything evil about the Emperor. ("He's a good man, a spiritual man, but you got to understand, he's become a bit of an aesthetic. He is so good hearted and trusting that he can't imagine just how bad it has gotten outside the walls of his palace. All of these years of bloodshed lay heavy on his heart; his advisors fill his ears with lies. Our real fight is with the Bureacracy!")
*sigh*
WEG's SW was great.
Re
Almost any GURPS game is seriously challenging for a DM to pull off right. This isn't because of the subject of the material. The difficulty comes from the rules intensive game structure of GURPS and amount of time it requires to prepare a good game.
GURPS has very little campaign world support. You truly must create your campaign from scratch in GURPS. They have no modules, just massive generic information. (Thus, the name is fitting, Generic Universal Roleplaying System for those that don't know.)
I don't like to use any system other than GURPS for modern day roleplaying like spec ops or spies due to their awsome martial arts and combat system and their skill selection. GURPS is great for capturing the gritty realism of a warfare or a spy adventure.
Almost any GURPS game is seriously challenging for a DM to pull off right. This isn't because of the subject of the material. The difficulty comes from the rules intensive game structure of GURPS and amount of time it requires to prepare a good game.
GURPS has very little campaign world support. You truly must create your campaign from scratch in GURPS. They have no modules, just massive generic information. (Thus, the name is fitting, Generic Universal Roleplaying System for those that don't know.)
I don't like to use any system other than GURPS for modern day roleplaying like spec ops or spies due to their awsome martial arts and combat system and their skill selection. GURPS is great for capturing the gritty realism of a warfare or a spy adventure.
Just a few for thought:
In Nomine GURPS: I love the idea, but it seems very hard to pull off, thankfully I have a VERY creative and cool DM, who among other things has pulled Immortals into the conflict between Heaven and Hell. The best was this(I played a Roleplayer who discovered that he was immortal, and played him to a tee) moment when I was going through some insanely old texts: "Wait a minute, so God is Lawful Evil, and Lucifer is Chaotic Evil?" Priceless Game Moment.
Thrash: downloadable from www.blackbird.nu this is a fan-made game to replace the Streetfighter RPG from White Wolf, I love this game but apparently nobody else around here has the no-how to run it(I use custom rules a lot that my players love, also the system is so easy that I can keep track of most stuff in my head) be warned it's hard to keep larger than 3 or 4 PC groups together, it takes an AWESOME DM to hold it together(thankfully my players seem to think I'm that kind of a DM, not tooting my own horn just stating what I believe)
In Nomine GURPS: I love the idea, but it seems very hard to pull off, thankfully I have a VERY creative and cool DM, who among other things has pulled Immortals into the conflict between Heaven and Hell. The best was this(I played a Roleplayer who discovered that he was immortal, and played him to a tee) moment when I was going through some insanely old texts: "Wait a minute, so God is Lawful Evil, and Lucifer is Chaotic Evil?" Priceless Game Moment.
Thrash: downloadable from www.blackbird.nu this is a fan-made game to replace the Streetfighter RPG from White Wolf, I love this game but apparently nobody else around here has the no-how to run it(I use custom rules a lot that my players love, also the system is so easy that I can keep track of most stuff in my head) be warned it's hard to keep larger than 3 or 4 PC groups together, it takes an AWESOME DM to hold it together(thankfully my players seem to think I'm that kind of a DM, not tooting my own horn just stating what I believe)
Dr_Rictus said:
Interestingly, Robin actually makes mention of that in his how-to-DM book, _Robin's Laws of Good Gaming_. He says that it worked because his gaming group at the time was made up of players who were receptive to that sort of campaign, and he wouldn't try it with the group he has today. It's not that his new group is worse, but they just prefer a different (more conventional) type of game. So it's clearly not just a matter of how good a DM you are, but what your players are like too.
WizarDru
Adventurer
Dr_Rictus said:
I was about to mention these very things, but you beat me to it. The Madlands is a brilliant setting, but one that I fear to try and bring players to. The players are all members of a xenophobic society of sub-tropical hunter-gatherers....who are probably fairly smart for being that way. With a pantheon inspired by A.A. Milne on cocaine, hideous demons like the Fleshless wandering the wilderness and a relatively high mortality rate, the players aren't adventurers...they're survivors. I especially liked the Xo Do Wabda tales...about said tribesman and his mishaps that are cautionary tales for the tribe...most of which are tantamount to 'Don't Touch it, whatever it is. Ever!' The introduction of a more traditional D&D society off somewhere else that occasionally sends missionaries is a nice touch, especially since the villagers often end up killing them if the environment doesn't. Like, I said, tough stuff.
I would rate GURPS Ice Age the same way, for about the same reasons, to a lesser degree. Some players just can't cotton to the adventure being 'Hunt a Mammoth and live to tell of it.'
I agree about Continuum, as well. If I, as the DM, can't figure it out...how am I expected to let my players do the same. Very intriguing game, but very hard to follow.
WizarDru
Adventurer
Re: Re
Having GM'ed GURPS games for over 15 years, I can tell you that it neccessarily so. GURPS Fantasy, for example, has an ample amount of gameworld material, as does the GURPS Supers and Traveller settings. Plus, SJG puts out lots of generic settings and material adaptable to any game, such as Places of Mystery, Who's Who and Warehouse 23, three of the best supplements for any game you play. Many of the modern day settings really don't need much material, hence the lack of them.
Classic example: in one of the rare instances of my chance to play rather than run a game, Scorch ran a GURPS 'Best of the Best' game, where we all participated in a bloodsport competition, each for his own reasons (secret agent, street tough, revenge, etc.). It was great. And we really didn't need that much material to work with...subway car, basement arena, alleyway ambush...all straightforward stuff. For my GURPS Supers game, I just used a map of Philadelphia, and some local knowledge. Badda-bing!
Truthfully, you only need as much material as you desire. It's true that GURPS can require more work on the DM's part if he wants, but depending on how freewheeling you are, it's no more than a d20 game would require.
Celtavian said:
Having GM'ed GURPS games for over 15 years, I can tell you that it neccessarily so. GURPS Fantasy, for example, has an ample amount of gameworld material, as does the GURPS Supers and Traveller settings. Plus, SJG puts out lots of generic settings and material adaptable to any game, such as Places of Mystery, Who's Who and Warehouse 23, three of the best supplements for any game you play. Many of the modern day settings really don't need much material, hence the lack of them.
Classic example: in one of the rare instances of my chance to play rather than run a game, Scorch ran a GURPS 'Best of the Best' game, where we all participated in a bloodsport competition, each for his own reasons (secret agent, street tough, revenge, etc.). It was great. And we really didn't need that much material to work with...subway car, basement arena, alleyway ambush...all straightforward stuff. For my GURPS Supers game, I just used a map of Philadelphia, and some local knowledge. Badda-bing!
Truthfully, you only need as much material as you desire. It's true that GURPS can require more work on the DM's part if he wants, but depending on how freewheeling you are, it's no more than a d20 game would require.
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