Games Workshop notes that space fascism would be bad

[MGibster]

We need the right balance between self-criticism and faith in ourself, both are necessary, but in excess both can also be wrong. And the writters should start to teach what are the true differences between a toxic boss and good leader. Do you remember Sgt Hartman in the movie "the metalic jacket"? In the real life he would be killed by a crazy recruit, but the soldiers would make sure it looked like an accident in the battlefield. The fiction tells about how to kill a tyrant, but nothing about to manage a nation or a company.

Gunnery Sargent Hartman was played by R. Lee Ermey who was an actual drill instructor in the United States Marine Corps from 1965-1967. And Ermey brought his own experience as a drill instructor to the role of Gny. Sgt. Hartman. I remember an interview were he talked about the scene where Hartman slaps Pyle to remind him of the difference between left and right. Hartman said something like, "We only have so many weeks to train these men before many of them would go into combat. If we had to slap someone to remind them which side was left and which was right, we slapped them."

And even in Full Metal Jacket, at the end of the basic training, Joker speaks almost admirably of the marine making process.

Graduation is only a few days away, and the recruits of Platoon 3092 are salty. They are ready to eat their own guts and ask for seconds. The drill instructors are proud to see that we are growing beyond their control. The Marine Corps does not want robots. The Marine Corps want killers. The Marine Corps wants to build indestructible men, men without fear.

There's a common belief that you can't really make an anti-war movie because they all end up glorifying it one way or the other. And Warhammer 40k is really no different. No matter how evil the Imperium is, the Space Marines, Imperial Knights, Sisters of Battle, and even the Imperial Guard all look pretty badass and heroic.

 

[Mannahnin]

Sometimes I doubted seriously about it was anti-totalitarian satire or subtel propaganda, something like "negative priming", showing something that is wrong to us get used to ignore them, or something "oh, yes, it is very wrong, but you can't fix it, it is better to accept and stand it".

Try reading Rogue Trader some time.

Meanwhile, here are some Space Marines busting a punk for graffiti, an overweight SM getting shot in the gut by an Ork, and another one cracking open a cold Pepsi.

 

[Umbran]

... and another one cracking open a cold Pepsi.

Well, if Pepsi is the drink of the Imperium, I don't wanna live there anyway.

 

[Fenris-77]

Well, if Pepsi is the drink of the Imperium, I don't wanna live there anyway.

I would have guessed New Coke, but whatevs...

 

[embee]

If any fascist Warhammer players are offended, they are free to participate in free-market capitalism and buy a copy of Myfarog.

 

[MGibster]

Well, if Pepsi is the drink of the Imperium, I don't wanna live there anyway.

The Choice of a Transhuman Generation.

I would have guessed New Coke, but whatevs...

I'll take, "Ways to show your age without actually mentioning your age for $200, Alex." Holy cow, it wasn't discontinued until 2002? I had no idea.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I remember the movie "Starship Troopers", and it was a litle ambigous about it was pro-patriotic or anti-war satire.

My grandfather was in the Spanish civil war, and he told me if the sgt wanted to be serious, my grandpa answered "my sargeant, my sargeant!" with a sarcastic tone, like a warn if he bother him too much, he could "suffer an accident".

Maybe I liked the gothic look of W40K, because it was like the cover of a heavy metal disk, but knowing the lore, the Ecclesiarchy, with that mindset of "everything that couldn't be controlled by us has to be destroyed" or "if we can't understand it then we have to destroy it", they became too annoying for my taste. It was like joke too old to be funny now.

I like the grimdark but the light of the hope by the heroes shinning more.

I don't trust that type of writters and creators because they forget ethical values like the mercy and the human dignity. They are forgetting the great potential of the humankind to make possible a better tomorrow. We aren't perfect and we make lots of mistakes, but also we can saints or nobleheart.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I remember the movie "Starship Troopers", and it was a litle ambigous about it was pro-patriotic or anti-war satire.

My grandfather was in the Spanish civil war, and he told me if the sgt wanted to be serious, my grandpa answered "my sargeant, my sargeant!" with a sarcastic tone, like a warn if he bother him too much, he could "suffer an accident".

Maybe I liked the gothic look of W40K, because it was like the cover of a heavy metal disk, but knowing the lore, the Ecclesiarchy, with that mindset of "everything that couldn't be controlled by us has to be destroyed" or "if we can't understand it then we have to destroy it", they became too annoying for my taste. It was like joke too old to be funny now.

I like the grimdark but the light of the hope by the heroes shinning more.

I don't trust that type of writters and creators because they forget ethical values like the mercy and the human dignity. They are forgetting the great potential of the humankind to make possible a better tomorrow. We aren't perfect and we make lots of mistakes, but also we can saints or nobleheart.

You've touched on this a number of times, and I feel like you are circling around this question:

Should fiction portray how the world is, or how it should be?

Different creators make different choices along that spectrum. I think it gets extra messy when the fiction you're creating is for a game that is played out by others. As much as you may condemn fascism, if your game requires people to play as fascists, well, it may be communicating something you don't intend.

I don't think GW should change their fiction, but it's an interesting conversation!

 

[Fenris-77]

I think there's room to examine issues like fascism in sci-fi, whether in a novel or as part of world-building. That's an entirely different issue to have jackholes dressing up like Nazis to attend a tournament. The latter is no reasonable excuse or reason to try and censor the former.

 

[Umbran]

I remember the movie "Starship Troopers", and it was a litle ambigous about it was pro-patriotic or anti-war satire.

Poe's Law: without a clear indicator of the author's intent, every parody of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of the views being parodied.