Games Workshop notes that space fascism would be bad

[Jd Smith1]

The majority of NeoNazis are not a continuation of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (the NSDAP, the actual historical NaZi)...

They're a distinctly different kind of hate group. they don't have political clout (or at least, until recently, didn't)...

Completely true. Despite adopting Nazi regalia, they're not Nazis. I've dealt extensively with those groups, and they're uniformly disorganized idiots. Few know anything of substance about the NSDAP (for example, that it was a leftist, eco-friendly organization), or even Hitler (avid bowler, huge fan of Charlie Chaplin).

Now, the Aryan Brotherhood and Aryan Circle also adopt Nazi symbols, but they are simply a organized criminal operation based in the prison system. They're not cartel level, but they are a definite menace in many areas.

 

[Umbran]

Completely true. Despite adopting Nazi regalia, they're not Nazis. I've dealt extensively with those groups, and they're uniformly disorganized idiots. Few know anything of substance about the NSDAP (for example, that it was a leftist, eco-friendly organization), or even Hitler (avid bowler, huge fan of Charlie Chaplin).

Mod Note:
EN World is not the place to educate about what is, or is not, a "real Nazi". So let's let this line of discussion drop, please and thank you.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Fascists choose their iconography because it's appealing. People don't like the iconography because they like Fascism; the inherent appeal of the iconography is/was intended to make Fascism appealing by association.

Yeah sorry I don't buy that.

Historically the iconography of fascism has a tradition thousands of years long. The Swastika, ironically, is exactly what you're describing but the iconography of power and dominance used by and reused by fascism and fascism-adjacent stuff is well-established and has been written about and discussed at length by erudite figures, so any attempt to fliply and glibly dismiss it as "just stuff people already like" is doomed to fail as a rational argument rather than an attempt at apologia or subject change. Honestly we'd need a whole other thread on a whole other board to discuss it, yeah no that's not true and it's not just me saying, it's something that people have really dug into. Happy to continue on PMs if wished, but understand if not.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The Salamanders still have black skin but it's more of a jet black inhuman color than one we would identify with on people today. Last year, I think it was last year, they released book (fiction not game) that featured a black Ultramarine on the cover, someone we'd identify as black, which seemed to cause some consternation among certain Youtubers who I won't name or link to here. One of those same Youtubers made a video denouncing GW's announcement that they don't want hate groups playing their games.

Yeah I'm aware re the skin colour thing re the Salamanders and when they made that change (or codified something inconsistent) in 3rd edition (after 2nd anyway), I believe, at the time I personally read it as a sop to racists. That may well not have been the intention but in 2nd edition Marines seemed like they were heading to a diverse place and in 3rd it seemed like they were all white, which was uncomfortable, given they were supermen and so on. I don't think it was intentional racism in retrospect but part of a generally cowardly/depressive/repressive approach to their own lore/setting in 3rd.

 

[Mannahnin]

Slight timeline adjustment- as I recall the Salamanders being black (as in the human skin tone) was early 2000s (3rd ed), coinciding with them getting an army list in Codex: Armageddon.