Games Workshop notes that space fascism would be bad

[Maxperson]

Generally speaking, I don't object to those kinds of miniatures myself. But I wouldn't want to use them in an area where the general public would see them.

A guy I used to play D&D with had a bunch of miniatures, some of which dated back to the late 70's and early 80's. He had this old ogre figurine that we had used for more than a decade that wore nothing but a loin cloth. One day in the early 2000's I was reach for my figure and bumped the ogre, causing it to fall forward. That was when we noticed that behind that loin cloth the ogre was anatomically correct and very well endowed. All I could think was, "Why would someone make that?"

 

[MGibster]

Oh yeah, if it was as crude as that they would. The Salamanders being actual Black guys was a thing from that era that I think they later retcon'd too. That's what I meant by crude 1990s anti-racism. But it had a big impact on how I saw the setting, a positive one. And retreating from that in 3rd edition and onwards they didn't really go anywhere good or diverse until more recently and then only arguably.

The Salamanders still have black skin but it's more of a jet black inhuman color than one we would identify with on people today. Last year, I think it was last year, they released book (fiction not game) that featured a black Ultramarine on the cover, someone we'd identify as black, which seemed to cause some consternation among certain Youtubers who I won't name or link to here. One of those same Youtubers made a video denouncing GW's announcement that they don't want hate groups playing their games.

 

[MGibster]

A guy I used to play D&D with had a bunch of miniatures, some of which dated back to the late 70's and early 80's. He had this old ogre figurine that we had used for more than a decade that wore nothing but a loin cloth. One day in the early 2000's I was reach for my figure and bumped the ogre, causing it to fall forward. That was when we noticed that behind that loin cloth the ogre was anatomically correct and very well endowed. All I could think was, "Why would someone make that?"

I think a miniature like that is just fine to use in a private space. Maybe it's just the fact that I have a juvenile sense of humor, but I find that miniature hilarious. There's a game called Kingdom Death that has some outrageous miniatures, many of which I wouldn't use in a public setting, but I don't have a problem with people producing, selling, or purchasing them.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A guy I used to play D&D with had a bunch of miniatures, some of which dated back to the late 70's and early 80's. He had this old ogre figurine that we had used for more than a decade that wore nothing but a loin cloth. One day in the early 2000's I was reach for my figure and bumped the ogre, causing it to fall forward. That was when we noticed that behind that loin cloth the ogre was anatomically correct and very well endowed. All I could think was, "Why would someone make that?"

I bought minis to play in my first D&D game in 1977, and haven’t stopped. Over the years, I’ve picked up a few that were…unusual.

For instance, I have a stone giant sculpted in the moment of hurling a boulder. He is completely naked and anatomically correct. At least one of my vampires is victimizing a naked or semi-naked woman. M harpies are topless, as are several of my “tauric” species minis. My succubus and erinyes are naked, too.

 

[S'mon]

Marines look cool to people who like ur-fascist iconography combined with space warriors.

Fascists choose their iconography because it's appealing. People don't like the iconography because they like Fascism; the inherent appeal of the iconography is/was intended to make Fascism appealing by association.

 

[Blue Orange]

Fascists choose their iconography because it's appealing. People don't like the iconography because they like Fascism; the inherent appeal of the iconography is/was intended to make Fascism appealing by association.

I mean, it's a feedback loop. The swastika was a generic good-luck symbol before 1933. Skulls are a symbol of death and therefore look dangerous and menacing, so Fascists used them to look hardcore like bikers after them.

There's a whole hypermasculine look to fascist iconography people can be drawn to without actually being fascists. I mean, you might fantasize about being in an army and killing the faceless enemy without actually wanting to do it in real life. People watch heist movies and fantasize about outsmarting the law and escaping with a bunch of cash, but most of those people don't go on to rob banks.

Nazis are powerful and evil, which is attractive to many as well (look at Dracula or Gordon Gekko or even the Joker in some cases)--apparently in the BDSM community there's a whole ongoing controversy on how to get the evil 'look' without being offensive to anyone whose family was actually killed. Why don't people get the same feeling about Communists, though? I mean, the NKVD and KGB did lots of bad stuff. I suspect, ironically, the effect of Hollywood (which of course had lots of relatives of the Nazis' real-life victims behind the scenes)--all those movies with Nazis as villains, which of course cast good-looking, charismatic people as Nazis just they like cast good-looking, charismatic people as everything else. Gives them a certain outlaw charisma. Christoph Waltz (Hans Landa, Inglourious Basterds) to take a recent example is a very good-looking guy with a lot of stage presence, and he makes being a Nazi look cool. (The protagonists are too, of course, but when a lot of your villains are Nazis, people wanting to be bad are going to think of Nazis.)

 

[Jd Smith1]

I mean, it's a feedback loop. The swastika was a generic good-luck symbol before 1933. Skulls are a symbol of death and therefore look dangerous and menacing, so Fascists used them to look hardcore like bikers after them.

There's a whole hypermasculine look to fascist iconography people can be drawn to without actually being fascists. I mean, you might fantasize about being in an army and killing the faceless enemy without actually wanting to do it in real life. People watch heist movies and fantasize about outsmarting the law and escaping with a bunch of cash, but most of those people don't go on to rob banks.

Nazis are powerful and evil, which is attractive to many as well (look at Dracula or Gordon Gekko or even the Joker in some cases)--apparently in the BDSM community there's a whole ongoing controversy on how to get the evil 'look' without being offensive to anyone whose family was actually killed. Why don't people get the same feeling about Communists, though? I mean, the NKVD and KGB did lots of bad stuff. I suspect, ironically, the effect of Hollywood (which of course had lots of relatives of the Nazis' real-life victims behind the scenes)--all those movies with Nazis as villains, which of course cast good-looking, charismatic people as Nazis just they like cast good-looking, charismatic people as everything else. Gives them a certain outlaw charisma. Christoph Waltz (Hans Landa, Inglourious Basterds) to take a recent example is a very good-looking guy with a lot of stage presence, and he makes being a Nazi look cool. (The protagonists are too, of course, but when a lot of your villains are Nazis, people wanting to be bad are going to think of Nazis.)

Nazis are also safe, because they have ended. The Soviets, while by pure body count even worse than the Nazis (albeit over a longer period of time) did not have such striking symbols, and there is also the awkward fact that the West cynically did two 180s regarding the USSR in the space of five years (pre- and post-WW2). The Nazis are uncomplex: they were always the baddies.

While 40k's Empire is horrible in just about every way imaginable, it is also facing things are are worse by numerous magnitudes (the Ruinous Powers and the Tyrainids) with whom there is no negotiation. It is hard to imagine any practical government facing those sort of threats and remaining one of individual liberties and unqualified rule of law. The Empire is the evolved product of a never-ending war for survival.

 

[Ancalagon]

Nazis are also safe, because they have ended.

I used to think that way, but events in the last few years have changed that opinion.

 

[Lanefan]

For those as are interested, this article just appeared on the main page of the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp) news site:

https://www.cbc.ca/radiointeractives/docproject/warhammer-40k

 

[aramis erak]

I used to think that way, but events in the last few years have changed that opinion.

The majority of NeoNazis are not a continuation of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (the NSDAP, the actual historical NaZi)...

They're a distinctly different kind of hate group. they don't have political clout (or at least, until recently, didn't)...