Gaming in an open enviroment
- Thread starter Stormborn
- Start date
The Shaman
First Post
It depends on you and your players, which is not a very helpful answer, I'm afraid.Stormborn said:
I work with helping players fit their backgrounds to the setting, and usually give them one or two NPC contacts - mentors, sponsors, or whathaveyou. In my open games, these NPC contacts are a primary means of introducing information about the world to the characters.
As far as why the adventurers are together, letting the players figure that one out is a good idea - maybe someone has a really good background detail that the others may choose to build on for their own characters, or at least will unite in support of achieving another character's goal. Again, working with them to fit the goals to the setting is important, IMHO.
The way I handle it is I tell the players about the world in a handout/email and in person about 2-4 weeks ahead of the first adventure, and let them ask me any questions they want, as long as they don't involve campaign secrets.
I generally let them know about major organizations, the races & classes available, what books I'll be using, etc.
If they come up with something I don't consider viable, then I let them know. Example: I posted in another thread a campaign idea in which the players all start as regular soldiers, mercenaries, or paid civilians in the service of a Regent who is the world's equivalent of Sauron (though they don't know it when the campaign starts), right before the other nations unleash their armies. As such, no one could reasonably start the game playing a Paladin or something similar- such a person would be weeded out by the Regent's agents.
However, after that starting point, all decisions are in the hands of the PCs. Continue in the service of evil or rebel?
But the fact of the matter is: different players will need different amounts of help. In my current group, we've got one guy who is a Ranger junkie. Every PC I have seen him play in the past 10 years has been either an actual Ranger or extremely Rangeresque. The very generic-ness and interchangibility of his PCs makes it easy to slot them into any campaign.
On the other hand, another guy in the group is a very creative type, and his PCs are usually...unusual (5 points if you guessed it was me). I'm always coming up with concepts in my backgrounds that my DMs yank. And I'm not the only one. I'll never forget the fun I had helping a player create a 1st level PC in one of my campaigns when he said to me "I want to play the Crow." That was a challenge...
That is campaign and game group specific.
The last time I started a campaign, the PCs were all headed to or living in a city that was celebrating the marriage that just ended a 200 year long war. It was the biggest party the world had seen in eons, so everyone wanted to go, but for different reasons. The transport to the city was then attacked by interdimensional pirates...
Another campaign had PCs getting hired for caravan duties for money that was simply too good to pass up.
In a RIFTS campaign, everyone was in a small town for a variety of reasons (one was even in jail) when they all noticed a bunch of mysterious deaths...turns out the Mayor was a Vampire...AND was also one of the PC's uncles!
In a HERO game, the GM simply has a bunch of us superheroes answering the same alarm at a warehouse...and as newbies to the scene, none of us recognized each other as heroes. Result: big free-for-all in which the actual perpetrators got away...until the next adventure.
Yet another campaign started off with an adventure. The first player was in a tavern when a mysterious stranger entered. A fight broke out in the bar, and the 1st PC and the Stranger (PC2)fought back to back before escaping out to the back alley, where they encountered PC3 getting mugged. They helped the PC and then...well, lets just say each PC was introduced singularly and serially- each introduction required actions and choices. After a couple of hours, the players had had had a rollicking series of interesting encounters which established certain roles and interrelations.
And for the record, at any time, the players could have chosen differently, and someone would have been told "Roll up a new PC."
Last edited:
Aikuchi
Transient
I read one of Danny Alcatraz' earlier posts about listening to the PC's discuss what they believed to be plot hooks, or ideas or what's 'really' happening. I like to create options out of those discussions.
If one of the options is close enough to what they've discussed, ti makes them feel great that they've figured it out (though I tend to throw in a little twist that they'll find out eventually if they choose to pursue the issue or follow through their decision). Oftentimes, they may choose not to purseu some of their intial actions.
I think its' great to naturally progress what their actions have created intheir aftermath. If they created much havoc in a town or city. They're likely to be unwelcome in the region as words spreads of the partys description (which may or may not be accurate at all). My players delight in knowing they left an indelible mark on every civilization they've encountered.
I have probably one or two main occurrences in the world, in which the players have no idea to an inkling off. Its usually only starts getting fleshed out after their first major encounter (from randomly generated ecounters).
This takes place regardless of their interaction. The entire realm is affected of course and there will be indications as the major influence take hold. The Pcs then get involved in an everchanging world. Whether or not they participate in the world event, is up to them. They could also continue with their random wandering but after awhile, they develop more quirks about the land (such as my Druid taking a dislike for the entire gnomish race becasue of ONE bad encounter).
Nonetheless, they feel an organic world.
They could fuel it, try and take time to understnad it or simply get be apathetic to the entire situation turning to more selfish means. But as they progress they personally create their own goals. The cant expand their power knowing there's another greater conquering menace in the north, Rivalry perhaps? Inherent moral code to put things back? Excite the sitaution, offer aid, spread malice, create a nuisance!
Many wonderful characters stem from their entounaters as well. NPC's take they take particualtly well to them make a comeback. Or thei'r names are heard of again by the PCs in the future.
Its all rather morphic in movement.
I have an entire world moving along and events unfolding. They can chooes to participate in ANY aspect of it. They canot *not* do anything because they'll surelly be affected by a world change as well. But they can choose how to act and react.
CR isn't usually a problem either.
At least my PC's are smart enuogh to stay awy from anything that seems beyond their scope of power .... most of the times.
---
I tend use the same realm technique and world concurrently with 2 gaming groups (at one point in the past)- and I got wonderful results.
Each group faced the world, quests, plots differently. And as I got back week to week to either group, they learn more about about each other unknowlingly. Stories trade back and forth. Backgrounds collide. (sigh...)
I miss that
I have faith and trust in my players that they will eventually go though enough trouble as a group to meld together as a group even when it seems they share no purpose. Stranger things have happened. Just as they trust and have to put faith in me that I'll run a fair and ultimately fun game.
I've rarely played any other way
If one of the options is close enough to what they've discussed, ti makes them feel great that they've figured it out (though I tend to throw in a little twist that they'll find out eventually if they choose to pursue the issue or follow through their decision). Oftentimes, they may choose not to purseu some of their intial actions.
I think its' great to naturally progress what their actions have created intheir aftermath. If they created much havoc in a town or city. They're likely to be unwelcome in the region as words spreads of the partys description (which may or may not be accurate at all). My players delight in knowing they left an indelible mark on every civilization they've encountered.
I have probably one or two main occurrences in the world, in which the players have no idea to an inkling off. Its usually only starts getting fleshed out after their first major encounter (from randomly generated ecounters).
This takes place regardless of their interaction. The entire realm is affected of course and there will be indications as the major influence take hold. The Pcs then get involved in an everchanging world. Whether or not they participate in the world event, is up to them. They could also continue with their random wandering but after awhile, they develop more quirks about the land (such as my Druid taking a dislike for the entire gnomish race becasue of ONE bad encounter).
Nonetheless, they feel an organic world.
They could fuel it, try and take time to understnad it or simply get be apathetic to the entire situation turning to more selfish means. But as they progress they personally create their own goals. The cant expand their power knowing there's another greater conquering menace in the north, Rivalry perhaps? Inherent moral code to put things back? Excite the sitaution, offer aid, spread malice, create a nuisance!
Many wonderful characters stem from their entounaters as well. NPC's take they take particualtly well to them make a comeback. Or thei'r names are heard of again by the PCs in the future.
Its all rather morphic in movement.
I have an entire world moving along and events unfolding. They can chooes to participate in ANY aspect of it. They canot *not* do anything because they'll surelly be affected by a world change as well. But they can choose how to act and react.
CR isn't usually a problem either.
At least my PC's are smart enuogh to stay awy from anything that seems beyond their scope of power .... most of the times.
---
I tend use the same realm technique and world concurrently with 2 gaming groups (at one point in the past)- and I got wonderful results.
Each group faced the world, quests, plots differently. And as I got back week to week to either group, they learn more about about each other unknowlingly. Stories trade back and forth. Backgrounds collide. (sigh...)
I miss that
I have faith and trust in my players that they will eventually go though enough trouble as a group to meld together as a group even when it seems they share no purpose. Stranger things have happened. Just as they trust and have to put faith in me that I'll run a fair and ultimately fun game.
I've rarely played any other way
(emphasis mine)
THAT is the "grand secret" of running an open campaign...THAT is what I was talking about in terms of "mind reading!"
Doing that will virtually eliminate writers block. Sure, you're planning adventures and coming up with hooks, but so are your players!
They're sitting there, talking about what they think is going on, and all the while, you're taking mental notes. If you use one of their ideas, they're likely to say "I read your mind, you magnificent bastard!" Or something like that.
Especially if they're of a machiavaellian bent!
Aikuchi
Transient
(bows to Danny Alcatraz)
Yes yours.
Although my players aren't of a Machiavaelien bent, Oftentimes, its mostly Malkavian (WW). But I attempt to be Machiavaelien when I reintrduced their "theories" into the discussion. Most time, they fear their own presumtions more so than anything I can think up of (lol!)
Yes yours.
Although my players aren't of a Machiavaelien bent, Oftentimes, its mostly Malkavian (WW). But I attempt to be Machiavaelien when I reintrduced their "theories" into the discussion. Most time, they fear their own presumtions more so than anything I can think up of (lol!)
Rafael Ceurdepyr
First Post
Dannyalcatraz said:
This is essentially the problem our group has with PC backgrounds. One is ALWAYS a ranger with no background, other than (maybe) "parents killed by orcs." Two of us come up with elaborate backgrounds and intertwined issues with each other (unless stopped). I'd love to have discussions about the game between sessions, etc. (as some have mentioned), but I'm nearly alone in that. So do you just let the background-lean ranger glide along while the background-rich PCs have potential plot hooks galore? How do you encourage more than generic backgrounds? Or do you?
[This whole thread has given me a lot to think about and some ideas to try in my upcoming Eberron campaign, but I still have difficulty with the idea of winging it (even with all the Eberron books to back me up)--meaning I don't have confidence in my own GMing abilities to pull it off successfully.]
Mishihari Lord
First Post
I have just a few thought on this issue:
1) There's no way to be as prepared for an open game as a more limited one. Say you have X hours to prep. If your characters are running a gauntlet, then you'll use everything you prepared. If your players have 100 different plausible options, then you'll probably use X/100 of your prep time. Be mentally prepared to wing it.
2) Prepare material that you can use whatever the players do. As an example, NPC Jim is 60ish and speaks with a Brooklyn accent. He's tough, fairly well off, and has a soft spot for people trying to do the right thing. If the PCs are looking for info in a cathedral, he's the priest. If they want to meet a crime lord instead, well that's him too. Or if they seek help from the police ...
You can do the same thing with monsters, locations, and lots of other stuff
3) During character generation, make sure that the characters have strong, well-defined goals and desires. If you want your players to be proactive, they _must_ have goals to pursue. This keeps them from being at loose ends and helps you prepare.
4) Demand a little advance notice. You can do whatever you want, but tell the DM at least a few (real-time) days ahead of time. This way the players get to do whatever they want, and the DM gets enough prep in that he doesn't draw a blank in the middle of the game.
5) The "magician's force" is a nice tool. Give them a choice to go down path A or B. They feel in charge. Whichever way they go though, they unexpectedly encounter the dragon. Don't confuse this with railroading, in which the players know there's a dragon and are trying to avoid it but it finds them anyway despite doing things that should have worked to keep them away from it.
Hopefully I'm not just repeating others' ideas. I skipped the part of the thread where people were arguing.
Personally, I don't think totally open games are a very good idea. It is nice to be able to do whatever you want to. It's good for versimmilitude and immersion. Things seem real. On the other hand, having detailed NPCs, geography, organizations, events, and so on are also good for versimmilitude and immerison, and you can't develop your world to the same extent if things are completely open-ended. Well, you can develop it, but your players will see less of the parts you develop.
I'm pretty good at winging it when I have to. My players always have a good time. I still find that things work better when I can prep because I don't have to use the first idea that pops into my head. I can use the third or fourth one that occur to me hours later and are much better.
That said, I don't _ever_ tell a player that they "can't do that." If they feel a need to go rob a bank, I can wing it for the rest of the session. On the other hand, my players are courteous enough that they won't do that without a very good reason because it wastes prep work I've done and results in an adventure that's not as good as it would have been if they'd made more reasonable choices.
1) There's no way to be as prepared for an open game as a more limited one. Say you have X hours to prep. If your characters are running a gauntlet, then you'll use everything you prepared. If your players have 100 different plausible options, then you'll probably use X/100 of your prep time. Be mentally prepared to wing it.
2) Prepare material that you can use whatever the players do. As an example, NPC Jim is 60ish and speaks with a Brooklyn accent. He's tough, fairly well off, and has a soft spot for people trying to do the right thing. If the PCs are looking for info in a cathedral, he's the priest. If they want to meet a crime lord instead, well that's him too. Or if they seek help from the police ...
You can do the same thing with monsters, locations, and lots of other stuff
3) During character generation, make sure that the characters have strong, well-defined goals and desires. If you want your players to be proactive, they _must_ have goals to pursue. This keeps them from being at loose ends and helps you prepare.
4) Demand a little advance notice. You can do whatever you want, but tell the DM at least a few (real-time) days ahead of time. This way the players get to do whatever they want, and the DM gets enough prep in that he doesn't draw a blank in the middle of the game.
5) The "magician's force" is a nice tool. Give them a choice to go down path A or B. They feel in charge. Whichever way they go though, they unexpectedly encounter the dragon. Don't confuse this with railroading, in which the players know there's a dragon and are trying to avoid it but it finds them anyway despite doing things that should have worked to keep them away from it.
Hopefully I'm not just repeating others' ideas. I skipped the part of the thread where people were arguing.
Personally, I don't think totally open games are a very good idea. It is nice to be able to do whatever you want to. It's good for versimmilitude and immersion. Things seem real. On the other hand, having detailed NPCs, geography, organizations, events, and so on are also good for versimmilitude and immerison, and you can't develop your world to the same extent if things are completely open-ended. Well, you can develop it, but your players will see less of the parts you develop.
I'm pretty good at winging it when I have to. My players always have a good time. I still find that things work better when I can prep because I don't have to use the first idea that pops into my head. I can use the third or fourth one that occur to me hours later and are much better.
That said, I don't _ever_ tell a player that they "can't do that." If they feel a need to go rob a bank, I can wing it for the rest of the session. On the other hand, my players are courteous enough that they won't do that without a very good reason because it wastes prep work I've done and results in an adventure that's not as good as it would have been if they'd made more reasonable choices.
Last edited:
If you have players who give you a 1 line PC background, do what I do.
Fill in the blanks &/or award prezzies!
Perhaps his orc-slain parents weren't really his parents, but rather 2 Church Wardsmen who were charged with keeping "The Chosen One" alive, until it was time for him to be presented at the Stone Circle of Cruth on his 25th birthday.
Perhaps he isn't "The Chosen One" (see above) but the Orcs THOUGHT he was...they were just killing off anyone who "fit the description."
After you use "blank" PC backgrounds as your personal playground enough times, most of them will start giving you more detailed backgrounds that may fit their personalities.
As for awarding prezzies, I routinely try to give out bennies to those players who give me better backgrounds to work with. They can be extra wealth, servants, underworld contacts, friends in high places, masterwork equipment, etc....depending on the details of the background.
In my experience, these 2 techniques work wonders.
Even the Ranger dude is getting more sophisticated about his PC bacgrounds.
Fill in the blanks &/or award prezzies!
Perhaps his orc-slain parents weren't really his parents, but rather 2 Church Wardsmen who were charged with keeping "The Chosen One" alive, until it was time for him to be presented at the Stone Circle of Cruth on his 25th birthday.
Perhaps he isn't "The Chosen One" (see above) but the Orcs THOUGHT he was...they were just killing off anyone who "fit the description."
After you use "blank" PC backgrounds as your personal playground enough times, most of them will start giving you more detailed backgrounds that may fit their personalities.
As for awarding prezzies, I routinely try to give out bennies to those players who give me better backgrounds to work with. They can be extra wealth, servants, underworld contacts, friends in high places, masterwork equipment, etc....depending on the details of the background.
In my experience, these 2 techniques work wonders.
Even the Ranger dude is getting more sophisticated about his PC bacgrounds.
Similar Threads
