There are scenarios it -could- make sense. If species on various planets derived from a common source, perhaps. A progenitor race that biased the evolution of life on a number of planets, for example...or a common ancestor that was once starfaring and spread widely in the distant past, then regressed or was otherwise lost.
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Gaming w/Jemal : Star Drift
- Thread starter Jemal
- Start date
Voda Vosa
First Post
I get both points of views, but being a biologist it is hard for me to digest. Even a pangalactic approach as Shayuri mentions, would mean humans were the progenitor race; unless you mean something like Prometheus movie thing? Which of course is completely wrong at so many levels I can't even begin with (biologically speaking).
I'm that kind of guy who can't see why we have to be so scientific about ships and tech and stuff and not about other natural laws of the universe.
I mean, even granting the fact that these life forms are all carbon based and have the same concept of consciousnesses would be a great leap into fantasy. Adding the humanoid thing just blew my mind. Perhaps I had more Star wars in the head when I started arguing =P
I'll PM you Jemal!
I'm that kind of guy who can't see why we have to be so scientific about ships and tech and stuff and not about other natural laws of the universe.
I mean, even granting the fact that these life forms are all carbon based and have the same concept of consciousnesses would be a great leap into fantasy. Adding the humanoid thing just blew my mind. Perhaps I had more Star wars in the head when I started arguing =P
I'll PM you Jemal!
Moon_Goddess
Have I really been on this site for over 20 years!
All I can say to it [MENTION=51271]Voda Vosa[/MENTION] is just roll with it, and hopefully my aliens in my game will be better for you. Though I still have a few cinematic conventions, just for easy of story.
In fairness, most aliens in Star Wars are pretty humanoid too. 
And the pangalactic approach doesn't require the progenitor species to be human. It just requires the 'seeding' of Earth to have taken place quite awhile ago. Long enough for natural evolution of the seeds to have taken place.
Heck, simply influencing the formation of DNA and amino acids, or early primordial life, might be enough to explain a lot of phenotypic similarities. I mean, all vertebrates on Earth share a common basic skeletal structure. Sci fi aliens sometimes aren't much more 'humanoid' than that.
And the pangalactic approach doesn't require the progenitor species to be human. It just requires the 'seeding' of Earth to have taken place quite awhile ago. Long enough for natural evolution of the seeds to have taken place.
Heck, simply influencing the formation of DNA and amino acids, or early primordial life, might be enough to explain a lot of phenotypic similarities. I mean, all vertebrates on Earth share a common basic skeletal structure. Sci fi aliens sometimes aren't much more 'humanoid' than that.
Voda Vosa
First Post
The "seeding" theory is of course impossible to be true, or at least highly improbably. Even is an outer space alien came here and spread RNA (not DNA, mind you) evolution could have taken and infinite amount of possible evolutionary roads. We (and all actual living organisms) are the outcome of one of them, marked by both an incredible amount of luck, and stochastic phenomena. Evolution proceeds selecting from a plethora of designs, armed with natural disasters and such, the fossil record is full of incredible things (I highly recommend S.J. Gould book "Wonderful life" about Burgess Shale formation to understand that point).
So the seeding theory would necessarily have to be changed so that what is seeded is either highly related species, or even a small colony of say humans. Evolution should shape them according to the new world's rules of survival.
As for the skeleton thing... I would disagree as well, compare a shark's skeleton with that of a dog. It's not just completely different in parts, also in composition. The only common thing would be a protective structure around the nerves called spinal cord. You can imagine the different body plans you can build around that.
And yeah, most aliens are also humanoids, but a bunch of them are not. There's crab people walking around, slugmans, and other oddities.
A side note: I'm debating for the pleasure of it, don't take none of this as related to the game.
So the seeding theory would necessarily have to be changed so that what is seeded is either highly related species, or even a small colony of say humans. Evolution should shape them according to the new world's rules of survival.
As for the skeleton thing... I would disagree as well, compare a shark's skeleton with that of a dog. It's not just completely different in parts, also in composition. The only common thing would be a protective structure around the nerves called spinal cord. You can imagine the different body plans you can build around that.
And yeah, most aliens are also humanoids, but a bunch of them are not. There's crab people walking around, slugmans, and other oddities.
A side note: I'm debating for the pleasure of it, don't take none of this as related to the game.
Okay, there are a handful of exceptions to the skeleton, but you have to admit there's a vast amount of similarity between -most- critters who have backbones.
Let me back up though, because you clearly know much more about this than I ever will, and my points aren't really addressing the problem.
The problem is one of perception, and plausibility. The reality is that no expert can ever be fooled by fiction concerning his specialty. This is why police officers tend to hate police dramas, lawyers can't get into courtroom dramas and so on. The requirements of fiction intended for laypeople are in many cases incompatible with how experts in the field understand the reality of that area.
My suggestion therefore would be to try to approach this situation not as a challenge against what you know, but a challenge FOR what you know.
Consider the phenomenon as it is placed before you; a galaxy that is not our own but is similar to it, in which many organisms on apparently completely unrelated worlds show remarkable similarities. Why? No one knows. It's a mystery. Theories abound, but no one's come up with one that adequately and fully explains all the details observed. Your character may in fact be one who is researching this very issue. Perhaps that's what he's doing in space...seeking out fossils and primordial chemical soups and discoveries about the origins of life in the cosmos, and why it seems so impossibly convergent...at least as far as sentient species are concerned.
In short, turn what you know into something that helps you get -into- the setting, rather than something that forces you to reject it. Approach the situation as a scientist; make your observations, then try to explain them. In this case, the GM is telling us what we observe. It falls to us now to understand why it's so.
Of course, this may only be delaying the issue. If Jemal ever tries to actually answer that mystery within the game, then you come right back to, "But that's not how things really work!" Hopefully by then though, you'll be willing to set aside your understanding of life sciences for the narrative as easily as the rest of us put aside our notions of causality and physical law.
And who knows? Perhaps you yourself might turn your knowledge of the subject to help the GM, suggesting possiblities that seem plausible to you, that also fit within the framework of the game. I'm sure Jemal wouldn't mind a few ideas thrown his way, as long as you leave him room to introduce surprises.
Let me back up though, because you clearly know much more about this than I ever will, and my points aren't really addressing the problem.
The problem is one of perception, and plausibility. The reality is that no expert can ever be fooled by fiction concerning his specialty. This is why police officers tend to hate police dramas, lawyers can't get into courtroom dramas and so on. The requirements of fiction intended for laypeople are in many cases incompatible with how experts in the field understand the reality of that area.
My suggestion therefore would be to try to approach this situation not as a challenge against what you know, but a challenge FOR what you know.
Consider the phenomenon as it is placed before you; a galaxy that is not our own but is similar to it, in which many organisms on apparently completely unrelated worlds show remarkable similarities. Why? No one knows. It's a mystery. Theories abound, but no one's come up with one that adequately and fully explains all the details observed. Your character may in fact be one who is researching this very issue. Perhaps that's what he's doing in space...seeking out fossils and primordial chemical soups and discoveries about the origins of life in the cosmos, and why it seems so impossibly convergent...at least as far as sentient species are concerned.
In short, turn what you know into something that helps you get -into- the setting, rather than something that forces you to reject it. Approach the situation as a scientist; make your observations, then try to explain them. In this case, the GM is telling us what we observe. It falls to us now to understand why it's so.
Of course, this may only be delaying the issue. If Jemal ever tries to actually answer that mystery within the game, then you come right back to, "But that's not how things really work!" Hopefully by then though, you'll be willing to set aside your understanding of life sciences for the narrative as easily as the rest of us put aside our notions of causality and physical law.
And who knows? Perhaps you yourself might turn your knowledge of the subject to help the GM, suggesting possiblities that seem plausible to you, that also fit within the framework of the game. I'm sure Jemal wouldn't mind a few ideas thrown his way, as long as you leave him room to introduce surprises.
Moon_Goddess
Have I really been on this site for over 20 years!
Yeah I was just about to comment that the only way seeding could produce a Klingon for instance, is if it were done writing the last 2 million years ala star gate.
Anyways, I'm quite willing to operate under the star trek style rules of for no other reason than it helps separate from my game.
I'm not sure about the species of my character yet, but I think I'm gonna play a young doctor.
Anyways, I'm quite willing to operate under the star trek style rules of for no other reason than it helps separate from my game.
I'm not sure about the species of my character yet, but I think I'm gonna play a young doctor.
Voda Vosa
First Post
Okay, there are a handful of exceptions to the skeleton, but you have to admit there's a vast amount of similarity between -most- critters who have backbones.
Let me back up though, because you clearly know much more about this than I ever will, and my points aren't really addressing the problem.
The problem is one of perception, and plausibility. The reality is that no expert can ever be fooled by fiction concerning his specialty. This is why police officers tend to hate police dramas, lawyers can't get into courtroom dramas and so on. The requirements of fiction intended for laypeople are in many cases incompatible with how experts in the field understand the reality of that area.
My suggestion therefore would be to try to approach this situation not as a challenge against what you know, but a challenge FOR what you know.
Consider the phenomenon as it is placed before you; a galaxy that is not our own but is similar to it, in which many organisms on apparently completely unrelated worlds show remarkable similarities. Why? No one knows. It's a mystery. Theories abound, but no one's come up with one that adequately and fully explains all the details observed. Your character may in fact be one who is researching this very issue. Perhaps that's what he's doing in space...seeking out fossils and primordial chemical soups and discoveries about the origins of life in the cosmos, and why it seems so impossibly convergent...at least as far as sentient species are concerned.
In short, turn what you know into something that helps you get -into- the setting, rather than something that forces you to reject it. Approach the situation as a scientist; make your observations, then try to explain them. In this case, the GM is telling us what we observe. It falls to us now to understand why it's so.
Of course, this may only be delaying the issue. If Jemal ever tries to actually answer that mystery within the game, then you come right back to, "But that's not how things really work!" Hopefully by then though, you'll be willing to set aside your understanding of life sciences for the narrative as easily as the rest of us put aside our notions of causality and physical law.
And who knows? Perhaps you yourself might turn your knowledge of the subject to help the GM, suggesting possiblities that seem plausible to you, that also fit within the framework of the game. I'm sure Jemal wouldn't mind a few ideas thrown his way, as long as you leave him room to introduce surprises.
Wow I got to say I'm completely buying this. Hadn't thought about it that way.
Binder Fred
3 rings to bind them all!
interresting. Speaking of that place, how about this to make it more Victorian: The system/empire instituted severe voluntary cut-backs on all luxuries during the war (The Austerity, with a rallying cry of "Overcome!"), going from streamlined product lines (much less variety, yearly contests to get the few available production mandates from the Queen (*)), to voluntary personal austerity (modest/practical fashions (by today's standards), subdued colours, politically correct understated consumerism from the rich, pious shows of low consumption from everybody that doesn't want to be shunned), to deep cuts in personal transports (cabs and shuttle coaches heavily favored vs owning your own ship) and "voluntarily" reduced human rights and freedoms. Since the war ended, the system is slowly heading towards a more liberal clime, with arts and architecture making their re-appearance and luxuries slowly flooding back in from re-opened trade lines. Much of the war restrictions are still in place though, with a sizeable conservative element that seems to feel they are now part of the "proper, Victorian way".
*= an industry council based in the town of Queens, as I didn't want to go *too* Victorian with an *actual* queen, but up to you Drothgery. Maybe the planet housing the capital is called Queen?
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