Gatekeepin' it real: On the natural condition of fandom

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Are there people you want to keep out of the hobby?

It's not just about keeping people out. It also applies to putting people in their place. That awkward nerd in Darkon? He was put in his place in the Darkon pecking order. For what? What good came of it? Some people who felt they "paid their dues" continued to be exalted over someone bursting onto the scene with a lot of enthusiasm and lack of social awareness?
 

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Celebrim

Legend
It's not just about keeping people out. It also applies to putting people in their place. That awkward nerd in Darkon? He was put in his place in the Darkon pecking order. For what? What good came of it? Some people who felt they "paid their dues" continued to be exalted over someone bursting onto the scene with a lot of enthusiasm and lack of social awareness?

To some extent it might have been people wanting to feel superior to other people. But it also might be people who felt with some cause that his poor quality costume was harming their enjoyment and immersion in the shared imaginary space they'd worked so hard to construct. Have you ever had that friend, even someone you like, whom you sometimes excluded from certain social functions because their presence just made things a little less fun? Like you'd be happy to RP with them most times, but you'd not invite them on a double date?

Let's put it in a different context when it comes to "paying your dues". Suppose I went down to the local fantasy gaming store for the first time, and I say these guys playing this amazing game with these hand painted models and vast armies - for example Warhammer 40K. It was like the coolest thing I had ever seen, but wow did it look like it took a lot of money to buy and paint all those miniatures. And imagine that I decided that I just couldn't afford all that, and so instead I took some 3x5 note cards and a stencil and I carefully lettered all the 3x5 note cards with the units I wanted to own, and the next week I took them down to the store with the intention of participating in the monthly Warhammer 40K tournament. Yay, me! Then those rude gatekeepers refused to let me play and even laughed at me with my stack of 3x5 note cards.

Or yeah, same thing but it's a stack of make homemade magic cards where I've hand lettered four of them with the words "Black Lotus".

In both cases, there might be some participants there whose self-valuation was based on their expensive toys, but even then there would still be a lot of very good reasons why you don't just show up uninvited, unasked, with no permission to that sort of thing with hand made alternative game pieces expecting full acceptance for your action.
 

Bravesteel25

Baronet of Gaming
I think what this thread has shown is that not all gatekeeping comes from a toxic place, but overall those who are the targets of said gatekeeping can feel needlessly singled out unless people take the opportunity to explain why they feel something they are doing is inappropriate, have an exchange about it, and come to a satisfactory conclusion. That conclusion might be that gatekeeper changing their behavior, or it might be a case where the target of the gatekeeping finds a different group/circle/whatever.

Communication is key.
 

Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain
I do agree that 'that's dumb', but at the same time neither am I trying to gain acceptance at a table that has been playing Greyhawk for 40 years. I am not a "real fan", and I wouldn't try to present myself as one. As much as possible, I'd try to assume the attitude of a novice, and wait to win my respect from them. And if they asserted, "Look, we've been playing together 40 years. We're not only deep in Greyhawk lore, but we have so much table history together that a new player would be lost.", well, they have a right to keep the gate to their country.

Personal table space and the community writ large are not the same thing. That's been my whole point I don't want to player certain kinds of games. I'm free to pick who I play with or not, but that doesn't mean somebody that doesn't share my pesonal preferences or level of enthusiasm should be made to feel unwelcome at say Gen Con, or here on ENWorld.

I can be a fan of say Star Trek. I'm pretty sure I've seen every ST:TNG episode, I'm not as certain I've seen all of TOS, I know I haven't seen all of DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise. I fore sure haven't seen any Discovery. I've seen all of the movies, an the JJ Abrams reboot (but not the sequels). I read a few novels back in highschool. All of that probably makes a fan of Star Trek. I like it, I think its a great franchise. I can't tell you what Scotty did in episode 37 or whatever. If I asked my dad if he's a fan of Star Trek he'd probably say yes. I'm not sure he's seen anything other than TNG and TOS and the movies up to Star Trek 6, does that make him not a fan because I happen to have seen and read more than him? What I went to a Star Trek convention, I'm not going to dress up, should I be questioned at every turn why I'm there if I'm not in costume?

Yes, but isn't it the first situation that is really relevant? I mean if the person never tries to enter the gate, why does it matter if there is a gate keeper?

Because the gatekeeper can be such an asshat they make the people that are part of a community look bad by association, often because its the loudest person doing the gatekeeping. Additionally, its usually somebody that takes it upon themselves to do this rather than being asked by a community. That's the problem, its an unwanted, unneeded position and jerks take up because they think they know what's need to keep a community "safe".

If you think about it the mods on EN World are gatekeepers of the website and forums. While we as members don't have a say, given that EN World is a private forum itis something we agree to. However, Morrus and Umbran can't just go around the internet declaring people unfit for D&D because they aren't EN World members. That's the kind of behaviour we're talking about. Its not private clubs, or what a fan is, those are all distractions from what I really think Morrus was trying to get at originally: none of us get to make another person feel unwelcome because we think they aren't really a fan, or we're keeping D&D safe from those unwashed heathens that only like watching streaming and don't actually play.

Celebrim, I think you keep conflating the idea of a rules based club/game/organization (with either implicit or explicit rules) with somebody saying, "No you aren't really welcome as a member of any group related to X because you don't meet my perceive criteria." Having rules based criteria for joining a group/club/whatever is fine. Warhammer is a good example, to participate in a tourney you need painted models. However, buying prepainted models or paying somebody to paint them does no less make you a real participant in Warhammer, and I'm willing to be some players that take great pride in their paint jobs would say otherwise.

As for hand lettered card to try it out, other than official tourney play there isn't actually a rule about that, other than other players being jerks to you.
 

generic

On that metempsychosis tweak
Rage against the dying of the light? Or maybe drink another Mountain Dew and fire a magic missile into the darkness. One or the other, they amount to the same thing.
Don't mock Mountain Dew, it fuels me. It is my very lifeblood, the core of my Vampiric code. How else would I gain the unnatural ability to game for hours upon hours on end?
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
Don't mock Mountain Dew, it fuels me. It is my very lifeblood, the core of my Vampiric code. How else would I gain the unnatural ability to game for hours upon hours on end?
No mockery intended o' vampiric one. Just referencing the classics.
 


generic

On that metempsychosis tweak
No mockery intended o' vampiric one. Just referencing the classics.
intones deeply

Mountain dew is life, elifay see wed nyat'nwom

Thwap Wacks head with board.

SleepyExcitableAzurewingedmagpie-size_restricted.gif
 



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