[Gencon 04] All Publishers Please Read.

[Nikchick]

Why not go for the more reasonable, and easier, option, in which all d20 Publishers agree to purchase booths in a certain area of the convention hall. You can still be close together without having to purchase a huge lot...


What's the problem?

Well, here are several problems:

* placement on the floor in a convention like GenCon is determined by Priority Points. There is no way to select your exact location, that's determined by the convention organizers.

* priority points: I have a great deal of experience with banding together in order to exhibit as a group. GenCon WILL NOT split out priority points for all the companies sharing space, even if we're talking about a large booth allotment that's split between several exhibitors who have individual tables within the space. The "main exhibitor" gets all the priority points associated with exhibiting, and if, for some reason, that main exhibitor does not choose to continue exhibiting with the rest of the parties (take for example the years Green Ronin spent exhibiting with Wizards Attic) those accumulated priority points are essentially erased, and your subsequent booth placement suffers for it. Green Ronin already saw their priority points and placement go the way of the dodo with the fall of Wizards Attic, and I am adamantly opposed to any plan that would involve us getting into that situation again.

* cost of space: exhibitors are prohibited from purchasing "individual" booths and aligning them into other configurations. If you want an "endcap" or an "island" configuration, you *must* pay for that at GenCon's pre-determined rates for that configuration. I guarantee that your 10x10 booth space will cost you more than $10. It will cost you more than $100! In fact, a single general booth space at GenCon, at current prices, costs *several* hundred dollars... and that price goes up if you want the more "prestigeous" corner, endcap, or island booth configurations. That means if you try to divide the one fo those large spaces into several smaller spaces and charge each participant accordingly, you can end up paying more for your 10x10 booth space inside the "island" than if you'd just gotten a 10x10 booth for yourself.

We considered a co-operative booth grouping like Aurthur is suggesting for Osseum clients for this years' shows, and that plan ultimately fell through for these exact reasons. And these are just the reasons that I can list for you off the top of my convention-weary head. I have no doubt there are many more.


Not to be a wet blanket, just trying to be a realist,
Nicole

 

[Twin Rose]

These were things I addressed, as well, Nichole and I agree with you 100% - noone wants to lose hard-earned points. Noone wants to end up with the ONE dead spot at the Con ... Trust me. (Look at my booth this year! LOL)

But an open floor where a BUNCH of people put in for gaming, with smaller tables for "Hot products", with Osseum or someone else, if enough were willing to go in on such a venture might pan out actually. No loss of points - we all still have our booths - and I think the sales in such a central "spot" would be like our own little retail store at the Con.

(Just to keep debate and ideas flowing, rather than simply closing the door on the idea and letting it be forgotten. This seems to be something fans want, and that shouldn't be ignored).

 

[BrooklynKnight]

no reason we cant try and try again, with a years worth of planning and negotiating its possible.

 

[JohnNephew]

Handling the money is one of the biggest nightmares in this scenario.

What do you do if some publishers bail out, without paying their share?

What do you do if some of the publishers say they really really want in, and you need them to achieve the size to make it work, but they don't have the cash on hand yet, but promise they'll have it before the show (or maybe by the end of the show, from sales)? Do you kill the effort you've put in; or who puts up the money? And how do they get compensated for assuming that risk?

Having dabbled in the "collaborate with other publishers on something that sounds like a neat idea at the time" field, I can tell you that money issues are an ENORMOUS concern. Even when dealing with companies that you might think of as large, established, and thriving.

Heck, if someone can get you to assume the risk of the booth cost, and then put off to the last minute paying...or deciding not to after all...then they're getting a big interest-free loan at your expense, or a free option on a Gen Con booth.

Now, if you go and structure things to build in costs for investment risk, you lose any economy of scale cost benefits.

If a bunch of d20 publishers would like to have a "d20 aisle," the thing to do, I think, is just talk to Gen Con management about it, and see if something can be arranged (and perhaps even highlighted to Gen Con's benefit, both for attendees and as a means to recruit exhibitors and thus get more business and profit). Don't expect to get special prices though -- after all, their prices do build in the element of risk (having to deal with no-shows, bounced checks, the administrative cost of dealing with all the individual exhibitors, whatever other awful things can go wrong), and allow you to get just one of those 10x10 booths for yourself.

 

[Twin Rose]

Absolutely, handling the money on such a thing sounds like a terribly difficult prospect. On the other hand, you also have small print publishers who share a "small space" at "Booth X" who might pick up slack if one vendor doesn't show. Especially if you do my "small table" idea (see above) in addition to publishers normal booth space.

To be honest, I think the only way it would be worth it is if one company with a huge amount of funding was willing to "take the risk" that publishers would back it when he produced a layout and a complete plan. He would likely GET a bulk-rate discount (2 booths are cheaper I think than buying 2 seperately, for example)... Was willing to invite several companies at a good rate to make them say, "Oh yes, I definately wanna do that.." and they had a product of their own that they know would benefit from having a lot of support, demos, and gaming.

Of course, with any luck and future GenCons, Campaign Suite will be big enough and have enough publisher products in it to make that a very viable option for TRS. Lots of benefits for everyone involved to make it work. Of course, we aren't quite at that stage yet, not without taking out loans! (Not exactly something I'd be willing to do at this point on something that is a huge risk).

Who knows, maybe we'll see a shift in the priority point system so that publishers who decide to work together on displays DON'T lose their points if they later split up.

 

[JohnNephew]

To be honest, I think the only way it would be worth it is if one company with a huge amount of funding was willing to "take the risk" that publishers would back it when he produced a layout and a complete plan. He would likely GET a bulk-rate discount (2 booths are cheaper I think than buying 2 seperately, for example)... Was willing to invite several companies at a good rate to make them say, "Oh yes, I definately wanna do that.." and they had a product of their own that they know would benefit from having a lot of support, demos, and gaming.

To make the risk worth taking, of course, the company taking it would need to be seeing some potential upside -- some substantial profit potential to offset the considerable risk. Say, the person who puts up the money for the booth space and coordinates it all gets 50% of the revenues from booth sales (in effect, all the participating publishers offer the booth entrepreneur their goods on consignment). Even then, the risk-taker would want to screen participants carefully, and only take on ones that are going to generate enough revenues to cover costs and make the booth a healthy profit.

Just by way of example, "our" booth these days is actually a collaboration of Atlas Games, Steve Jackson Games, and Dork Storm Press. To be more exact, there's a fourth company -- a game retailer that puts up all the cash for the booth and show expenses. The retailer gets all of our products on consignment -- they pay us for what sells. Of course, we get a much smaller percentage of each sale than we would if we were selling it ourselves...but we're not risking the cash to make the whole thing happen, and we get the benefits of show presence (and, for instance, me being able to stay home and do essential work, and then fly out unexpectedly when I find a last-minute cheap airfare, to catch the last day of the show). We get less profit from the show, but it also isn't as huge a disruption to our office and production schedule as conventions usually were in the past.

 

[Twin Rose]

Just by way of example, "our" booth these days is actually a collaboration of Atlas Games, Steve Jackson Games, and Dork Storm Press. To be more exact, there's a fourth company -- a game retailer that puts up all the cash for the booth and show expenses. The retailer gets all of our products on consignment -- they pay us for what sells. Of course, we get a much smaller percentage of each sale than we would if we were selling it ourselves...but we're not risking the cash to make the whole thing happen, and we get the benefits of show presence (and, for instance, me being able to stay home and do essential work, and then fly out unexpectedly when I find a last-minute cheap airfare, to catch the last day of the show). We get less profit from the show, but it also isn't as huge a disruption to our office and production schedule as conventions usually were in the past.

Much as I was thinking. The "retailer" could very easily purchase the products from the companies at wholesale - especially if he had an extensive retail store somewhere, and/or online sales that could bite any surplus. The "benefit" for him, in this case, is that he has the authors/publishers/whoever ready to do signings, demos, etc. The upside for the publisher, of course, would be exposure and wholesale purchases.

 

[jmucchiello]

If you look at the costs for booth space, you'll notice that the price goes UP as the size of the booth grows:

Booth
Type Dimensions pre-reg
Standard 10X10 $950
Corner 10X10 $1,120
End cap 10X20 $2,310
4-booth peninsula 20X20 $4,540
6-booth peninsula 30X20 $6,630
8-booth peninsula 40X20 $8,710
10-booth peninsula 50X20 $10,800
4-booth island 20X20 $5,360
6-booth island 30X20 $7,640
8-booth island 40X20 $9,910
10-booth island 50X20 $12,190
12-booth island 60X20 $14,465
14-booth island 70X20 $16,740
15-booth island 50X30 $17,870

Short of convincing GenCon staff that a d20 pavillion is needed, I doubt this would work. Perhaps someone should write a business proposal to Mr Adkison about creating a pavillion for future events. Basically a way to group a bunch of companies' priority points into a single location.

Nikchick, if this were a GenCon sponsored pavillion rather than a bunch of companies trying to create it, wouldn't it be more desirable to Green Ronin to be in such a pavillion? (Assuming of course it wasn't located in the far corner of the hall.)

 

[BrooklynKnight]

Assuming 15 companies equally shared a 15 booth island it would cost each company just under 1200 each for it.

 

[Twin Rose]

Assuming 15 companies equally shared a 15 booth island it would cost each company just under 1200 each for it.

With no real room for gaming tables and displays, though you would have more 'room to play' I suppose.