[Gencon 04] All Publishers Please Read.

[Nikchick]

If you look at the costs for booth space, you'll notice that the price goes UP as the size of the booth grows

Right, that's what I was getting at earlier. Thanks for taking the time to dig up the actual numbers!

Nikchick, if this were a GenCon sponsored pavillion rather than a bunch of companies trying to create it, wouldn't it be more desirable to Green Ronin to be in such a pavillion? (Assuming of course it wasn't located in the far corner of the hall.)

Sure, that would alleviate some of my concerns. Still, from a business management perspective, I can't see Peter or the other GenCon managers giving up the revenue from selling those booths in order to provide a D20 pavillion. Both GenCon and Origins often have waiting lists of attendees willing to fork over cold hard cash for those booth spaces, and the costs associated with running these big shows are such that "every booth counts" toward having a profitable show.

Nicole

 

[BrooklynKnight]

Id have to see the actual dimentions on paper, but i think its still possible to make all the booths face inward and stilll have a gaming area.

If not I'm sure we can work out something with the RPGA to use some of their gaming space.

They had Exibit Hall G in addition to a ton of rooms for gaming and Hall G was mostly empty with well over a hundred tables for gaming.

 

[BrooklynKnight]

Sure, that would alleviate some of my concerns. Still, from a business management perspective, I can't see Peter or the other GenCon managers giving up the revenue from selling those booths in order to provide a D20 pavillion. Both GenCon and Origins often have waiting lists of attendees willing to fork over cold hard cash for those booth spaces, and the costs associated with running these big shows are such that "every booth counts" toward having a profitable show.

Nicole

I'm prolly missing something here, but how would peter lose money if there was a d20 pavilion set up via a 15booth island?

 

[Twin Rose]

The advantage, for companies involved, is that you can have much less square footage but much more exposure, by putting together little islands.. As well as having demo time on the tables, what have you.

The disadvantage, of course, is having less square footage, not to mention the cost.

For anyone to invest into the idea, publishers and/or private party wanting to use it to make money (or at least break even) there would need to be criteria set up ... Everyone involved would have to get together ahead of time... A standard of quality -or- presetup table arrangements and let everyone handle their own banners/walls/displays... And scheduled events that would draw in crowds.

If there was one "Retail Store" for all the publishers present in a central location, thus freeing up the publishers themselves to do the demos, show product, etc and then let them go buy on their whims (or buy direct, too, of course) then it would need to be located in such a way people COULD browse. If anyone walked by upper deck this year, they saw lots of people playing games or watching movies, but you could hear crickets in the retail store. This most certainly wouldn't be acceptable.

 

[BrooklynKnight]

The advantage, for companies involved, is that you can have much less square footage but much more exposure, by putting together little islands.. As well as having demo time on the tables, what have you.

The disadvantage, of course, is having less square footage, not to mention the cost.

For anyone to invest into the idea, publishers and/or private party wanting to use it to make money (or at least break even) there would need to be criteria set up ... Everyone involved would have to get together ahead of time... A standard of quality -or- presetup table arrangements and let everyone handle their own banners/walls/displays... And scheduled events that would draw in crowds.

If there was one "Retail Store" for all the publishers present in a central location, thus freeing up the publishers themselves to do the demos, show product, etc and then let them go buy on their whims (or buy direct, too, of course) then it would need to be located in such a way people COULD browse. If anyone walked by upper deck this year, they saw lots of people playing games or watching movies, but you could hear crickets in the retail store. This most certainly wouldn't be acceptable.

this is exactly what im getting at. after we know who paticipayes we CAN do this all over the next year and ave it all arranged.

 

[Nikchick]

I'm prolly missing something here, but how would peter lose money if there was a d20 pavilion set up via a 15booth island?

"If this were a GenCon sponsored pavillion," I took that to mean GenCon *sponsoring* it (ie, not collecting the fees). If I'm still forking out some percentage of the cost of a 15-booth pavilion in order to get what I would already get for cheaper if I bought my traditional endcap alone, then I guess I'm missing the GenCon "sponsorship" angle.

Nicole

 

[BrooklynKnight]

The way i've known "sponsorship" doesnt always mean free stuff or getting money.

It could mean they are just working with us outside the normal bounds of buisness.

either way, something along those lines would be a boon to everyone.

 

[Twin Rose]

"If this were a GenCon sponsored pavillion," I took that to mean GenCon *sponsoring* it (ie, not collecting the fees). If I'm still forking out some percentage of the cost of a 15-booth pavilion in order to get what I would already get for cheaper if I bought my traditional endcap alone, then I guess I'm missing the GenCon "sponsorship" angle.

Nicole

I think the point here is the "Core Idea" of a large pavallion setup where everyone has roughly the same "face" or more, gets more exposure, more traffic, and a greater "feel" for the industry. Whether it's through sponsorship, investment, or what have you - the point is everyone wins. The rest is sort of sideline, I think, and brainstorming on ways it could work while we still have lots of time to hammer out specifics.

I think it might be better handled by professionals with ties, priority points, events, or other reasons that GenCon, companies, etc have a REASON to deal with them. This is why (Green Ronin and myself, at least, who are involved in this discussion) pay Osseum, right?

 

[DSC-EricPrice]

Color me the wet noodle... (and understand that we had a successful booth sharing with Ed Bourelle of Skeleton Key Games and dozens of freelance projects fame)

Having 15-20 chiefs trying to decide how best to design the pavillion sounds like an ego bruising waiting to happen and the groundwork for many hurt feelings and upset people. While something that calls attention to the d20 publishers (or any publisher for that matter) is the grail of every business going to GenCon, we are all essentially competing for the same gamer dollar. You can't get around that. In this market many publishers even have directly competing products. Many of us are friends and even more of us are friendly but steal my sale right out from under me and we're flirting with disaster.

Ettiquette questions abound. A guy comes into the pavillion, who talks to him? How do you get him to YOUR product versus the other guy who is situated near the entrance to the pavillion? Friendships make for bad partnerships when a lot of money is involved, especially if there are differences of opinion or if the thing heads south.

At $1200 a pop I cant imagine Dragon Scale Counters would be interested. Thats a couple hundred more than a regular booth costs. Neither would other entrepreneurs coming for the first time (they used to get a pretty good discount, I assume they still do)

Perhaps another way to get good exposure would be to put a flyer together that advertises each of your products (and your locations at the show) from a coalition and pay to have it stuck in the GenCon bag (btw, this is REALLY expensive too)

Alternately, picking a retailer to rally around (James and RPGSHOP/MALL/NOW comes to mind) and paying him a premium to highlight your product or give you some small corner to autograph or demo stuff in at set times during the con might be a workable solution, so long as the times could be worked out.

I really like the idea of having something as big as WotC and WizKids, but the truth of the matter is, none of us are even close to that big. I bought the house I can afford, not the one that everyone envies.

Peace and Good Luck

 

[jmucchiello]

Sure, that would alleviate some of my concerns. Still, from a business management perspective, I can't see Peter or the other GenCon managers giving up the revenue from selling those booths in order to provide a D20 pavillion. Both GenCon and Origins often have waiting lists of attendees willing to fork over cold hard cash for those booth spaces, and the costs associated with running these big shows are such that "every booth counts" toward having a profitable show.

Well, I knew what I meant.

By sponsorship I meant that GenCon would recognize that there are individual companies sharing a space so that if next year you parted company with the pavillion you would keep your priority points. (I KNOW how important they are.) But you would still be paying for booth space on your own. The benefit to the pavillion would be the visibility of the pavillion itself. Optimally, Wizards would allow the real d20 logo to be used on the pavillion. (Yes, I know, now I've added another company to the table.)

Other things the pavillion could provide is a sales system similar to the art show so people could pay by credit card at even the smallest publisher's booth.

I'm imagining a space with limited entry points with the publishers arranged around the edges with center tables for gaming. Pubs would put up posters on the outside to attract customers to find out what's going on inside.

There might be a higher fee for getting into the pavillion. This would pay for the privillege of a better spot than you normally receive. It would pay for the lcentral area of the pavillion (the dead/gaming space area). It would pay for the large signs to attract people to the pavillion. Or the individual space in the pavillion might be 8x10 instead of 10x10 with the missing 20 square feet contributing to the common area.

Again, this assumes GenCon would honor your priority points, be willing to create a high profile pavillion at the expense of other attendees with more priority points, and be willing to design the layout of the mini-exhibit floor that the pavillion becomes. Oh, and that Wizards allows the d20 system logo to be used.

I doubt this will happen. If it isn't in place by Indy 2004, it will never happen because the bigger d20 companies will be too big join with the smaller companies.

This idea is already on thin ice, several "major" d20 companies had 10x20 endcaps or larger booths. Optimally we'd want Mongoose (were they a 20x20 peninsua or was it even larger) and the others in the pavillion. The more core d20 companies outside the pavillion, the weaker it is.