GenCon Indy 2007, let's shake the male/female ratios--or not, they seem fine here ;)

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Teflon Billy

Explorer
freebfrost said:
CM should never be a recommended place for a civil discussion on ENWorld. If you can't hold an honorable discussion here in polite company, then there is no point to it. That's like saying, "would you care to step outside?".

Here's why: EN World's moderators don't like hostility, and when a thread starts out hostile and a few blows are exchanged, someone is going to be deprived of their "last word" when the mods ride in and make everyone play nice.

Also, I find it hard to understand why there is so much reliance on CM these days for "alternate" discussions.

Where would you prefer "Discussions unwelcome at EN World" be conducted?

How is CM "where the discussion is taking place," without participation from all but a few who frequent both boards? That's not a ENWorld discussion then.

I agree with you, it's not an EN World discussion.

The idealized EN World discussion is amongst bloodless intellectuals in the Ivory Tower using Roberts Rules of Order as a framework for their discussion.

The idealized Circvs Maximvs discussion is amongst a bunch of hair-trigger beatniks (a whole different kind of intellectual) sitting at the booth in a bar using only their own ability to get points across as their "rules of order"

If you prefer one system, that's fine. But don't go pretending the other has no value.
 

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TheGM

First Post
Not seeing the other thread, and having promised to follow up with the thoughts of my favorite female gamer, I will keep this thread alive for a bit longer...

She sees this as several different issues:
- She'd like to see more marketing for females - like lady's shirts.
- She would not go sit at a table that was full of gamers she didn't know to play under a GM she didn't know unless forced to by circumstance.
- She doesn't think the percentages are relevant to good gaming.

Overall, she pretty much wants to play with gamers like here, and doesn't want to try playing Russian Roulette by just picking a random group of people and throwing them together based upon their gender.

I guess her biases are more traditional gamer biases... She doesn't want to play 3E at anyone's table, she doesn't want the weenie that plays every character CN in her group, and she doesn't want Timmy The Power Gamer to slow her game down with calculations about how best to maximize hit potential.

Now the thread can die... Maybe.

Don.
 


freebfrost

Explorer
Teflon Billy said:
Where would you prefer "Discussions unwelcome at EN World" be conducted?
I prefer to have relevant and mature discussions about gaming here, TB. This is not something political, religious, or raunchy - so why do we need to take it there?

It's also interesting to note the number of dual board posters who continuously offer to take the discussion there, but I've yet to see one take it from CM to here...

"We won't be playing Scabble for her hand I fear" - Sting, "Seven Days"

If you prefer one system, that's fine. But don't go pretending the other has no value.
The other has no value in this discussion. This is a new ENWorld poster talking about her perceptions of gaming and how to make it a better place - not to get beat down by the CM "rules of order" crew.

Each system has its own merits, but don't go pretending CM is needed to help the OP find her place on ENWorld.
 

Buttercup

Princess of Florin
freebfrost said:
Each system has its own merits, but don't go pretending CM is needed to help the OP find her place on ENWorld.

I don't claim to speak for T-Bill.

I was the one who invited you to take it over there, however. I didn't invite the OP to take it over there, because I agree that there was no need. I invited you, because you wanted to continue a peripheral discussion that would amount to a threadcrap if we engaged. Then too, the moderators had asked us to stand down. I am not interested in making trouble for any of them, or for myself, so I attempted to find a way to talk to you that would not violate a moderator's order. That being the case, I won't respond to any more of your posts in this thread, unless they become germaine to the discussion once more.

Honestly though, fusangite and I can carry on at CM, since I'm still interested in what he has to say, and I agree with those who have said it's time for this thread to die.
 

GRIMJIM

First Post
Sephera said:
Female oriented t-shirts. Something that shows a little more respect for women than two d20's and the caption, "yes these are natural across" the chest of the shirt.

My wife really wants this shirt now *sigh*. Who sells 'em?
 


Teflon Billy

Explorer
freebfrost said:
I prefer to have relevant and mature discussions about gaming here, TB. This is not something political, religious, or raunchy - so why do we need to take it there?

Because it's not a "civil" discussion. EN World's FAQ has, as rule #1 "keep it civil" and the original poster engaged in blanket generalizations about groups and, indeed individuals on the board.

Members of those groups (and individuals) took exception an it got their blood up...which is to say they wanted to respond in kind. If the original poster gave offense without meaning to (which I beleive is the case), well, it's not up to you and I to tell people how to take offense to comments from folks who give it.

It's also interesting to note the number of dual board posters who continuously offer to take the discussion there, but I've yet to see one take it from CM to here...

I'll just say right off, I think you are trying too hard to be clever.

Here is why no one offers to take discussions from CM to EN world: there is no topic of discussion that you can have at EN World that you can't have at CM...and at CM you don't need to constatnly self-censor.

The same is not true here. There are myriad topics that are verboten, and you do need to be fairly careful about how your message is delivered.

The only reason I could think that someone would want to bring a topic to EN World from CM was if they wanted the people they were discussing things with to not have the ability to call them out on the cheap ploys that are part-and-parcel of getting around the rules at EN World (Passive-Aggressiveness being only the most complained about)

The other has no value in this discussion.

Well, it clearly does to those who are actually having the discussion.

No value to you? That I can accept.

This is a new ENWorld poster talking about her perceptions of gaming and how to make it a better place- not to get beat down by the CM "rules of order" crew.

Really? Because from where I sit this is a poster obliquely claiming that one segment of the gaming community is inherently better, unfairly overlooked, and deserves more recognition that the masses.

And as for a "CM Rules of Order" crew, that's just an offensive shot.

No one was getting a "beat down", they were being taken to task for their offensive comments.

And I thought that politeness and non-offensiveneness were what you valued here...why lower yourself?

Each system has its own merits, but don't go pretending CM is needed to help the OP find her place on ENWorld.

I said nothing or the sort, pretending or otherwise.

I said that the value lay in--with a Mod telling everyone to dial it down (Rel, back in post #119)--that there was somewhere where the discussion could continue unabated.

(Honest Question) You do know that CM is a n EN World entity right?

Both are owned by Morrus, both are hosted on Morrus' server and that CM is the EN World pressure valve by design don't you?

I really don't have any concern one way or the other whether a New Poster Finds Her Place at EN World.

Really, none.

She either will or won't based on stuff far beyond my ability to control.

What does[ concern me is that the original poster decided that her inaugural thread to "Find Her place" by...

  • Ridiculing members of the board over their shirt choices
  • Take offense for an entire gender over issues not common to the entire gender
  • Lecture


But I think you might've missed the point entirely.

No one asked the original poster to take the discussion to CM

They asked you.

And here you sit, passive aggressively taking shots, and claiming that you are above it all.

Enjoy EN World man.
 
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Sephera

First Post

Rel

Liquid Awesome
And VOILA! We're done!

There is nothing inherently wrong with the topic but I can see that this thread is going nowhere good.
 

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