General Discussion Thread IX

[orsal]

My position is that you absolutely may veto any PvP involving your character.

I don't quite go along with "absolutely" -- I do believe that, if a player wants no part of PvP, it is his or her responsibility to create a character not prone to invite it. If you play a hot-tempered type who easily gets into fights with anyone around him, well, don't complain if your character gets into fights with people around him.

But in this case, Jdvn1 has not done anything to invite a fight between Anton and other PCs. So yes, if Jdvn1 does not want to play PvP, Rystil Arden needs to accommodate that.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I don't quite go along with "absolutely" -- I do believe that, if a player wants no part of PvP, it is his or her responsibility to create a character not prone to invite it. If you play a hot-tempered type who easily gets into fights with anyone around him, well, don't complain if your character gets into fights with people around him.

But in this case, Jdvn1 has not done anything to invite a fight between Anton and other PCs. So yes, if Jdvn1 does not want to play PvP, Rystil Arden needs to accommodate that.

I would agree with El Jefe's stance more than yours, orsal. I'm fine with saying that a player can have an absolute veto on PvP no matter what, but the distinction you make here doesn't hold for me. Taking us away from the current situation and just in general, you're saying that it's okay to PvP a rude character but not a character who is a known Wanted murderer? I'm cool if you're able to PvP neither, and I understand why. If this is so and Jdvn1 doesn't want any PvP, I'll respect that and find a way around it (likely involving having to fend off an equal or stronger party of NPC bounty hunters instead) I'm cool if you're able to PvP both as well. But to me your statement seems a ridiculous double-standard.

 

[SlagMortar]

Some of my characters may well have turned Anton over to the authorities, and fought if Anton did not go peacefully. I didn't read the whole thread though so I can't say exactly what any of my characters would have done. I think if any of the PCs that were there decided to attack Anton, then I don't think Jdvn1 should have been able to avoid PvP by any out of character means. However, setting up an adventure to go after a PC I think should need consent from all parties involved.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Some of my characters may well have turned Anton over to the authorities, and fought if Anton did not go peacefully. I didn't read the whole thread though so I can't say exactly what any of my characters would have done. I think if any of the PCs that were there decided to attack Anton, then I don't think Jdvn1 should have been able to avoid PvP by any out of character means. However, setting up an adventure to go after a PC I think should need consent from all parties involved.

I agree. Lasair would have turned Anton over to the authorities. If she couldn't have done so because of the rest of the group, she would have turned herself in and demanded to serve his sentence herself out of shame for being part of the group that committed the murder. Zaeryl wouldn't have cared. If it had happened in Orussus where they have a stronger guard force and could expect to defeat the whole party if they had to fight, the guards would probably have captured him. I mean, whatever else we say, for the benefit of those who haven't read the game thread, Anton did shoot a defenseless unarmed Commoner in the back. Twice. He definitely had his internal reasons and was roleplayed in character to Jdvn1's vision of the character (it was an Evil act, but Anton is Lawful Neutral and he also does good acts sometimes too), but he had no legal grounds to do so that would hold in court.

 

[SlagMortar]

I'll just add that in my opinion the man killed was a bit unrealistically open to martyrdom (intended as a constructive criticism - DMing is hard). Most people I have ever met would apologize for an off color comment if it upset someone enough for the subject of the insult to threaten violence. They also wouldn't turn their back on someone menacingly brandishing a weapon without starting a full sprint, not that that would have saved him. Anton doesn't have quickdraw so his bow must have been drawn already.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'll just add that in my opinion the man killed was a bit unrealistically open to martyrdom (intended as a constructive criticism - DMing is hard). Most people I have ever met would apologize for an off color comment if it upset someone enough for the subject of the insult to threaten violence. They also wouldn't turn their back on someone menacingly brandishing a weapon without starting a full sprint, not that that would have saved him. Anton doesn't have quickdraw so his bow must have been drawn already.

He was honestly convinced that they weren't murderers, that they were heroes who were just acting a bit crazy but would not actually hurt an innocent man (I rolled Intimidate checks to see if he would be intimidated to handle this aspect and they failed to Intimidate him--you'll note Thurgan did the same thing with his crossbow but didn't shoot).

Others who don't want to spoil the possible new adventure can catch the action here

 

[Jdvn1]

I mean, whatever else we say, for the benefit of those who haven't read the game thread, Anton did shoot a defenseless unarmed Commoner in the back. Twice.

I actually didn't have any say in where I could shoot him. I wanted to shoot him while he was facing me, but he turned away in a post after I posted my attack.

He definitely had his internal reasons and was roleplayed in character to Jdvn1's vision of the character (it was an Evil act, but Anton is Lawful Neutral and he also does good acts sometimes too), but he had no legal grounds to do so that would hold in court.

I don't think it was an Evil act. It wasn't legal, but in any Dumas-like world (Anton is loosely based off a character from such a world), that messenger wouldn't have had so many chances to live.

... But that's a side topic.

 

[Velmont]

Orussus is burning!

I got a question.

A fire just started in Orussus in my tournament adventure. Nothing major, a few house, but enough to make me think: how does Orussus can contain a fire?

Here a few options:

Quench spell (But that mean a druid squad should be there... I doubt)
Wand of Create Water (An option, but that mean we would need a squad of clric ready to handle the wand)
Rod of Flame Extinguisher (Can be handle by anyone... good option, but it is 15 000 gp each, and one rod might not be anough, how much rod would it be needed?)
Fire truck (not exactly like the ones today, but chariot having a lot of barrel conatining water ready to replenish buckets)

I just want opinion before I start to describe the situation to my player. Also, what reaction time do you expect?

 

[Rystil Arden]

I actually didn't have any say in where I could shoot him. I wanted to shoot him while he was facing me, but he turned away in a post after I posted my attack.
I don't think it was an Evil act. It wasn't legal, but in any Dumas-like world (Anton is loosely based off a character from such a world), that messenger wouldn't have had so many chances to live.

... But that's a side topic.

Ah, Dumas. I see where you're coming from, there. That actually puts it more into perspective for me than before--In Dumas's mythos, the actions seem to make more sense somewhat. I'd still say it was D&D Evil, though it certainly doesn't turn the character Evil on its own.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I got a question.

A fire just started in Orussus in my tournament adventure. Nothing major, a few house, but enough to make me think: how does Orussus can contain a fire?

Here a few options:

Quench spell (But that mean a druid squad should be there... I doubt)
Wand of Create Water (An option, but that mean we would need a squad of clric ready to handle the wand)
Rod of Flame Extinguisher (Can be handle by anyone... good option, but it is 15 000 gp each, and one rod might not be anough, how much rod would it be needed?)
Fire truck (not exactly like the ones today, but chariot having a lot of barrel conatining water ready to replenish buckets)

I just want opinion before I start to describe the situation to my player. Also, what reaction time do you expect?

Interesting question. They could also just have a typical bucket brigade with a long line of folks passing buckets.