Genericizing The Monk

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I find the high damage dice kind of troubling, even though they don't *actually* do that much more damage than a munched out fighter.

They will with full BAB, an actual enhancement bonus to attack and flurry of blows. And if they can get affordable and flavorful "weapon" enhancements added to natural attacks, such as flaming, their damage goes up even more.

I don't mind the Wis for AC; I can handle a *bit* of mysticism, just not the whole spiritual baggage they include with the class.

Some people don't want any mysticism at all, however. In one of my last D20 Modern sessions, the main villain was an insane (low Wisdom) old man with tactical and martial arts abilities and not a drop of mystical abilities. He still had a really high Defense though. (Not that it saved him.)

I wouldn't be totally upset if enhancement bonuses were somehow based on Wisdom (since that's mystical, and the monk will forever suck without something like that) but in a martial arts class, they don't teach you to block and dodge by being "mystical".

 

[Shallown]

I did a martial artist class that dumped mostthe supernatural things (though not some abilities that may appear supernatural like the movement bonus and open hand damage) And switched it to more of a styles class that got a style choice every 3 levels or so and had 10 styles so you could go for a wrestler class or a tripping or outright damage machine. Styles were like feats picking up the higher level abilities had requirements like a feat so you could still be a generalist hand pick up the first 1-2 abilities in a style without getting the advanced stuff. I haven't looked at it in a while but I can post it if I remember to follow-up on this thread.

Later

 

[Spatzimaus]

A while back we made a very generic Monk for our world, and I posted it here somewhere. The problem was that the PHB Monk was almost purely a fighter, which doesn't fit well with the whole "ascetic sage" monk type. So, we added more abilities and made the class flexible.

Effectively, the modified class was a series of 5-level PrCs wrapped together. Basically, 1-5 for all Monks followed a core progression, but then at 6+ you could choose from 6 "paths", each corresponding to one stat, with a stat requirement of 9+(2*tier). That is, the Path of the Fist depends on STR. Fist 1 requires 11 STR, Fist 2 requires 13 STR, and so on up to 19 STR for Fist 5. You weren't required to stay on one Path at a time, you could mix and match whatever you wanted. So, as long as your Monk's stats were reasonably good, you always had a few choices at any level.

So the STR path gave mostly attack bonuses, the DEX gave the movement ones, the WIS one added a bunch of new spell-like abilities, CON had the protections from poison or disease, and so on. Basically, the PHB Monk was what you'd get with levels in the STR, DEX, CON, and CHA paths. But if you wanted the more scholarly type, you could spend more on the INT and WIS paths.

 

[the Jester]

A while back we made a very generic Monk for our world, and I posted it here somewhere. The problem was that the PHB Monk was almost purely a fighter, which doesn't fit well with the whole "ascetic sage" monk type. So, we added more abilities and made the class flexible.

Effectively, the modified class was a series of 5-level PrCs wrapped together. Basically, 1-5 for all Monks followed a core progression, but then at 6+ you could choose from 6 "paths"....

>snip<

So the STR path gave mostly attack bonuses, the DEX gave the movement ones, the WIS one added a bunch of new spell-like abilities, CON had the protections from poison or disease, and so on. Basically, the PHB Monk was what you'd get with levels in the STR, DEX, CON, and CHA paths. But if you wanted the more scholarly type, you could spend more on the INT and WIS paths.

This is brilliant. I may steal this idea from you. My god, I like it a lot- I've been mulling how to represent the ascetic type for quite a while now.

Would you mind posting your monk version?

 

[Turanil]

I don't think there is really a need for creating a new monk class. I would instead suggest to just rename all their special abilities, and then rewrite all the fluff description of the class. Here is two exemples of what I did for a Celtic campaign setting where indeed monks had nothing to do (at least as Shaolin martial artists...).

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Monks are clearly an oriental type of character class, and have nothing to do in the Celtic world. As such, the monk class should not be allowed. Nevertheless, some GMs do not care about historical consistency in their games, or do not want to restrict their players’ choices. In this case, we may find ways to keep the monk class, and turn it into a character fitting with the Celtic legends. However the Shaolin archetype of monk honing mind and body in the monastery, definitely cannot apply. Instead, we propose two characters who may use the monk’s game mechanics in a Celtic society. But remember: while the game mechanics are still those of monks, the theme of the class (and the names of its abilities) is new. This shouldn't be considered a monk anymore!

-- Laoch Taibhse (“ghost warrior”): Always operating in the dark of the night, this evil character (typically a part-fomorian – i.e.: half-orc) works as an assassin for some otherworldly entity. He gets his unnatural fighting skills and other abilities from the demon he serves, during ritual trances carried out in the deep of foggy nights… And so, his hands and feet turn to talons when he fights, reverting back to normal thereafter; while his legs seem to lengthen and change to that of an animal when he runs, reverting back to normal afterwards. However, all of this usually wields a price, as the more he gains of such powers, the more he becomes enslaved to his supernatural mentor's will.

-- Witches of Kaer Lloyw: These legendary witches are known to train young men who were promised to a heroic destiny by fate (like Cuchulainn trained by the witch Scatach), not only in the arts of war, but also in love and magic. However, they are witches, not muscled warriors wielding great axes and shields. As such, they owe their mysterious art of combat to magic and other secrets only known to their kind. These women are thus rumored to strike their opponents with their bare hands better than with many weapons, a thing of witchcraft indeed. Others tell of these witches being able to dismiss arrows shoot at them with a gesture of the hand. So, they are often called Gaisge Buitseach Maighdeann , which roughly means: “maiden able to perform incredible feat of arms through witchcraft”.

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[Spatzimaus]

This is brilliant. I may steal this idea from you. My god, I like it a lot- I've been mulling how to represent the ascetic type for quite a while now.

Would you mind posting your monk version?

Found it.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=31073

This was written for 3.0 a little over two years ago, but it's not too difficult to update. It's actually a bit of a boost in power; IMC we also use an "Exotic Materials" set of rules, which make weapons and armor more powerful than they are now. So, the way I reworked Ki Strike might be a bit too strong in the normal system. But, feel free to tweak as needed.

Also, we made a few changes that weren't included in that post. I can dig up our final version if need be.

 

[North]

I'm gonna have to disagree with removing wisdom bonuses to AC, and possibly adding them to attack boni. The way I've always read "insight" bonuses as insight into how your opponent fights, and adaptation to it. I'm pretty sure that I read a feat/spell/power somewhere that denied insight bonuses with the flavor that an opponent couldn't read you (A mind blank effect?).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I'm gonna have to disagree with removing wisdom bonuses to AC, and possibly adding them to attack boni. The way I've always read "insight" bonuses as insight into how your opponent fights, and adaptation to it. I'm pretty sure that I read a feat/spell/power somewhere that denied insight bonuses with the flavor that an opponent couldn't read you (A mind blank effect?).

It's a feat from the XPH. It works against supernatural effects, not effects based on skill and training.