Genre Discussion: Cyberpunk

[chuckdee]

David Dunham used to run cyberpunk with lightly modded Pendragon, which worked greets. You can define cultural and subcultural priorities with sets of traits, and passions for individual priorities. The pursuit of glory is the pursuit of glory. The Ringworld skill system is nicely expandable; combat is simple and dramatic. These days I’d do it something lighter like QuestWorlds, but Cyberdragon was very satisfying and probably still would be.

That sounds so cool... I'd want to see that. Now I will be obsessed with trying to fit that...

 

[TheAlkaizer]

But I’ve never had fun playing cyberpunk rpgs. I guess that’s because the games never live up to what cyberpunk is to me personally, they’re just a bleak fragment or pastiche.

That's kind of the problem, where games like Shadowrun and Cyberpunk are involved. Far too often you are working for the corps, instead of the 'punk' aspect of taking down the establishment. I can't remember a single campaign of either in which we were trying to break and rebuild The System, which is a big part of most early Cyberpunk stories.

I'm a fan of Cyberpunk in general (both the themes it explores, and the more superficial aesthetics that emerged out of the genre over time).

But one of my issue with the genre in a social setting is the gap there is between people liking the aesthetic and the different fantasies to explore (especially in a roleplaying game) and the literary crowd that clings very hard to the elements that define the genre from its literary roots.

I agree with most comments that say that the punk element gets lost, and that some themes are often forgotten. But when I'm sitting down to play a roleplaying game, playing someone working for a corporation is as legitimate as playing the punks. It's a setting, with different factions and actors and roleplaying games are great in exploring all of that. Pushing the boundaries of a genre and asking "Is it still Cyberpunk if we do this? Or are we losing something?" is artistically very healthy.

In many Cyberpunk settings, people do jobs for corporations because they don't have a choice. The whole idea is that they're stuck in the system. They do a job for Corp A, and the following day they're burning a warehouse for Corp B. It's a fragile balance for both the punks and the corporations.

And technology represents power. You could say that putting your hand on technology only to better yourself (or the aesthetic) goes against the genre. But the reality is that in a world that oppresses people, sometimes they all stand up together and fight back the oppressor. But very often they'll cannibalize each other for survival.

So it irritates me a bit when people comment on groups playing Cyberpunk and saying that it's not Cyberpunk for whatever reasons.

 

[Valetudo]

The thing is I always try to act like a corpo scumbag in the game but alot of the story is kinda against that.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I thought it would be interesting to talk about things in the cyberpunk genre, from television shows and novels to TTRPGs and video games.

I am going to start with two statements that might be a little controversial. 1) Westworld Season 3 is a really good cyberpunk story

I thought similar. It felt very much like that - you basically had some sort of mercs working for oppressively powerful corporations, but also opposed to them. The interesting twist was maybe how the hosts kinda added a bit of 3rd party to the mix.

 

[chuckdee]

So, workshopping this - does anyone have any ideas what touchstones for traits you could use in cyberpunk? I'm actually going with more transhuman cyberpunk, but it should be pretty similar.

I have a few ideas, but the names a pretty pedestrian:

Human <-> Cyber
Upward Mobility <-> Retreating from Society
Skill <-> AI
Physical Ability <-> Technical Expertise

Or do you think there's a better way to pair them? I didn't want to go with the virtues as listed, though they could apply, but things that could point to how your humanity is degrading.

 

[Ryujin]

I'm a fan of Cyberpunk in general (both the themes it explores, and the more superficial aesthetics that emerged out of the genre over time).

But one of my issue with the genre in a social setting is the gap there is between people liking the aesthetic and the different fantasies to explore (especially in a roleplaying game) and the literary crowd that clings very hard to the elements that define the genre from its literary roots.

I agree with most comments that say that the punk element gets lost, and that some themes are often forgotten. But when I'm sitting down to play a roleplaying game, playing someone working for a corporation is as legitimate as playing the punks. It's a setting, with different factions and actors and roleplaying games are great in exploring all of that. Pushing the boundaries of a genre and asking "Is it still Cyberpunk if we do this? Or are we losing something?" is artistically very healthy.

In many Cyberpunk settings, people do jobs for corporations because they don't have a choice. The whole idea is that they're stuck in the system. They do a job for Corp A, and the following day they're burning a warehouse for Corp B. It's a fragile balance for both the punks and the corporations.

And technology represents power. You could say that putting your hand on technology only to better yourself (or the aesthetic) goes against the genre. But the reality is that in a world that oppresses people, sometimes they all stand up together and fight back the oppressor. But very often they'll cannibalize each other for survival.

So it irritates me a bit when people comment on groups playing Cyberpunk and saying that it's not Cyberpunk for whatever reasons.

Valid? Sure, but the pre-gens I've seen all seem to fall on that side. Why not mix it up a little and look at the whole genre, in a role playing game?

One of the better Cyberpunk novels that I've read involved protagonists who owned a dojo in a poor part of town, taught local kids self defence, and took occasional small corp jobs to bridge the gaps when they weren't playing Neighbourhood Watch. They got picked up by a big corp, for a major ongoing payday, but didn't lose the neighbourhood protector role either.

 

[TheAlkaizer]

Valid? Sure, but the pre-gens I've seen all seem to fall on that side. Why not mix it up a little and look at the whole genre, in a role playing game?

Of course.

But I do think roleplaying games lean more easily into some type of stories. There's a reason why there's so much action and violence in most games.

You could absolutely do a roleplaying about a romance, or a familial drama or managing a business. But it's clearly very design goals, and requires a different type of roleplaying game.

Personally, I'm down to explore all of this, in most genres. But I understand why people tend to lean into cyberwares and runs in Cyberpunk just like they lean into adventurers in dungeons in fantasy or crew in a starship in sci-fi.

 

[Ryujin]

Of course.

But I do think roleplaying games lean more easily into some type of stories. There's a reason why there's so much action and violence in most games.

You could absolutely do a roleplaying about a romance, or a familial drama or managing a business. But it's clearly very design goals, and requires a different type of roleplaying game.

Personally, I'm down to explore all of this, in most genres. But I understand why people tend to lean into cyberwares and runs in Cyberpunk just like they lean into adventurers in dungeons in fantasy or crew in a starship in sci-fi.

But you can get the shoot-em-ups, cyberware, and leveling-up along with the anti-corp stuff. It's just not as relatively trivial as a corp heavy hitter sort of thing.

 

[Reynard]

Valid? Sure, but the pre-gens I've seen all seem to fall on that side. Why not mix it up a little and look at the whole genre, in a role playing game?

One of the better Cyberpunk novels that I've read involved protagonists who owned a dojo in a poor part of town, taught local kids self defence, and took occasional small corp jobs to bridge the gaps when they weren't playing Neighbourhood Watch. They got picked up by a big corp, for a major ongoing payday, but didn't lose the neighbourhood protector role either.

What novel was that?

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

So it irritates me a bit when people comment on groups playing Cyberpunk and saying that it's not Cyberpunk for whatever reasons.

I hope I was clear that what I described was my personal feelings and experiences with the rpg genre, not meant to point any fingers at anyone other than myself. As always, as long as fun is had there is no badwrong, no matter what game system, genre or playstyle.