George R.R. Martin novel news

[Vocenoctum]

I just love the GRRM perspective shift with each PC-- er, POV character.
-- N

The POV stuff was nicely done and I also thought he did a great job of introducing new characters that were very important later in the books (or adding a viewpoint, ala Jaime) and making them interesting.
On the other hand, I think he didn't develop the old characters as well over time. The "no character is safe" style didn't bother me, but I also didn't think it was some great advancement in writing.

 

[Berandor]

Because I live in America, and sell guns! I'm totally desensitized to violence!

Really, the sex stuff was maybe 5-10% of why I disliked the books at the end. More had to do with the lack of achievements/landmarks for a lot of the characters, who it seemed wandered back and forth at times. There were other things too, but I've been in these discussions before, and it never goes anywhere.

True; that's why I didn't really press on specific scenes. I'm not going to make you like the books, and you're not going to make me not read them.

 

[KenM]

I have a slight problem with the POV style. Whenever GRRM puts in a new POV, you end up symathizing with that character. The Storm of Swords paperback had a preview from Feast for Crows, a Chersi POV. I have not read it, but I think reading her POV will detract from the character a bit. We need "good" bad guys. If he starts a Chersi POV, you might end up liking her.
I have an idea on Sansa's fate:

Spoiler

She will kill Chersi and in the process become excatly like her, the person she hated the most, in order to survive.

 

[Mallus]

I have not read it, but I think reading her POV will detract from the character a bit.

Huh? So good characters come from less characterization? Sounds kinda Zen...

We need "good" bad guys.

What do you mean? It sounds like your saying 'we need cyphers for pure evil' rather than antagonists who are fully fleshed out human beings.

How is having access to a character's interior life detrimental? Isn't that sort of the point of fiction?

BTW, I think your spoiler is dead-on.

 

[KenM]

I think that the when you have bad guys in fiction, movies, ect.. You need to have the audence really not like them. If you show part of why they do what they do, it might make the audence sympathize with them, reducing how "bad" or "evil" they are.

 

[Mallus]

If you show part of why they do what they do, it might make the audence sympathize with them, reducing how "bad" or "evil" they are.

But the more an audience is made to indentify with the villians, the more powerful the emotional response to their villiany. It closes the distance. Makes my a little complicit. If I'm made to question, even for a moment, the difference between myself and a person who commits atrocities, then I've had exactly the kind of experience I'm looking for in art. Works the other way too. I want heroes that are flawed, accessible. Its hard for me to vicariously participate in their heroism if they are so completely removed from my interior world.

Theres a place for Snidely Whiplash and robots bulit for evil; I think they're as fun as the next guy. But I'm just not going to have a deep and meaningful response to them.

 

[KenM]

Good points, Mallus. Just sometimes I like to understand a bad guy (Vader, Mr. Morden) other times I just want a bad guy to be a bad guy.

 

[Mallus]

Just sometimes I like to understand a bad guy (Vader, Mr. Morden) other times I just a bad guy to be a bad guy.

I can relate. Sometimes fun should just be fun. In the way food should sometimes jsut be sugar and fat...

Though I'd say Mr. Morden is a pure bad guy, a cypher with style and some great lines. Now Bester on the other hand (or even Londo, though I don't accept he's one of B5's proper villians)...

 

[KenM]

Though I'd say Mr. Morden is a pure bad guy, a cypher with style and some great lines. Now Bester on the other hand (or even Londo, though I don't accept he's one of B5's proper villians)...

If you get a chance, try to read the B5 novel "The Shadow Within" it deals with Anna Sheridian's and Mr. Morden's trip to a little planet. Provides some good insights to his character. Sorry for the hijack.

 

[KaosDevice]

A POV I would like to see would be either Berric Dondarrion or Thoros of Myr, I love those guys.