George RR Martin still writing?

[Felon]

Man is pulling a farking Dark Tower here. While that is less irritating than pulling a Wheel of Time, it's still irksome.

The flipside is that once King got all dedicated to finishing Dark Tower (after his brush with death), the end result shows that he pushed himself too fast. The big ideas just weren't there, so the big confrontation at the end is a letdown.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Total aside @ Felon:
Agreed about the Dark Tower to some extent. Although my problem wasn't with the ending, which was irksome but appropriate, but with the whole "meeting the author" bit, which Vonnegut did very well and King did in a way that felt like pure self-aggrandizement and nonsense.

 

[Fast Learner]

Interesting, I read something completely different from Gaiman: we're all human, we all push as hard as we can in whatever ways we can, we're all entitled to private lives, and we all have perfectly valid reasons why we end up letting people down, whether you think they're valid or not. That they're both writers allows for a greater specific empathy, but doesn't define the argument.

I take it you've never promised something that you've been unable to follow through with. "Social contract" is a very nice idea -- and dude, do I ever want to read that next book -- but the reality is that people are frail.

Let's imagine that the reason the next book isn't out is that Martin, perhaps unknown to himself, is afraid that what he's produced isn't actually good enough, isn't at the level of the other books. Let's further imagine that he's effectively emotionally paralyzed on that front, that he's not making any progress and can't seem to get himself to finish something up and get it to the publisher. I don't know that this is the case, but for a moment let's pretend it's the actual problem. That's ok with me. If it was the case, would it not be ok with you? If so, is it because you think you're better than that, that you would never have such a problem? If you were in that situation, would you magically overcome it somehow?

It may be some other much more mundane reason, but even if it's that, it's just the way it is. We're all imperfect humans doing the very best they can despite piles and piles of intellectual, emotional, and physical limitations.

 

[Fast Learner]

The flipside is that once King got all dedicated to finishing Dark Tower (after his brush with death), the end result shows that he pushed himself too fast. The big ideas just weren't there, so the big confrontation at the end is a letdown.

Maybe King wasn't actually capable of following through on it at the level of expectation that the first few books set up.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Maybe King wasn't actually capable of following through on it at the level of expectation that the first few books set up.

Of course he wasn't. I'm guessing he knew he wasn't, but at least he did it anyway. That's really all I ask. I'd rather have an imperfect ending and some closure than sit around for decades unresolved.

If you don't have a roadmap for an epic story, don't start publishing it. I don't expect you to have every word worked out, but I expect you to have some idea where it's going.

If you are so thin-skinned that you're going to decide in the face of sales figures and clamoring fans that your work is so bad you can't bring yourself to finish it, you have no business getting into the epic series business.

In short, think before you leap.

 

[Fast Learner]

That assumes some pretty amazing foresight, including all kinds of things like the story not taking on a life of its own with new directions, new ideas, and exciting new paths (maybe even the very paths you actually like in the story).

But even if you hold people to that standard (and how do you know he doesn't know where the story is going? that certainly wasn't in my supposition), people still fail. Move on, y'know? If the story does continue, great, but man, as you point out he hasn't had an update in more than 2 years, and that update was "it's been a year since I've updated y'all, there's nothing new," and it's been nearly 5 years since the last book: just be let down, assume you'll never see it, resolve whatever bitterness remains, and move on. If another one comes out you can decide whether to re-involve yourself in the series, with the possibility of him failing yet again.

That's my advice, anyway.

 

[Felon]

Interesting, I read something completely different from Gaiman: we're all human, we all push as hard as we can in whatever ways we can, we're all entitled to private lives, and we all have perfectly valid reasons why we end up letting people down, whether you think they're valid or not. That they're both writers allows for a greater specific empathy, but doesn't define the argument.

I take it you've never promised something that you've been unable to follow through with.

When I fail to deliver, I'm contrite. Generally speaking.

If Martin came out and said "look, guys, like James Cameron, I got my 'Eff you!' money and I don't feel like finishing the series", that would feel better than this endless dawdling. But at this point it is very hard to get a sense that he's passionate about finishing the books.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Oh, I don't have a wellspring of bitterness left for this. I ran out of actual bitterness for this kind of thing on book 7 of Wheel of Time. Now I'm just bemusedly rueful with a chance of snarky comments when it comes up on a messageboard.

I only work up a head of steam when someone (including Gaiman) tries to tell me I'm not entitled to my rueful and/or snarky status. Most of it is actually self-directed, since I was stupid enough to invest time in another unfinished series.

But it's not all self-directed. It's not like the man had such a crisis of faith that it stopped him from working. He's writing, editing, and getting TV deals. He could at least show me some indication that he's not just milking and stalling for time. That will make me feel less stupid for trusting him. Or he could publicly admit he is milking/stalling/etc, in which case I can strike a dramatic prose (with shaking fist), scream "DAMN YOU, GEORGE R.R. MARTIN!" and officially write him off.

So, to get back to pure pithy inanity... since he didn't look before he leapt, he could at least poop or get off the pot.

 

[Fast Learner]

I agree that it would be best to say, "look guys, not sure if I'm ever going to finish this, sorry." My guess is that he either can't from a "can't accept it personally" perspective, or can't from a "contractually obligated" and "wants HBO to believe" perspective.

Or, I suppose, it's also possible that he's actually writing and rewriting and re-rewriting, actually working his ass off on it, and so such an acknowledgment might feel untrue.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I take it you've never promised something that you've been unable to follow through with. "Social contract" is a very nice idea -- and dude, do I ever want to read that next book -- but the reality is that people are frail.

I don't think "promise" is the best word here.

The flaw I see in that reasoning is that most cases money isn't changing hands.

If you go into work, and you promise that you'll have X done by Y, then at Y shrug and say "oops," you might get away with that once. However, you're being paid to do something, and it's not unjustified to expect a return on that expense. Now, obviously writing is a little different, but not exceptionally so that it invalidates the thought exercise. Perhaps a better example might be an investor and a company; the investor needs customers to make money, and the company needs to produce.

This brings me to where I think the real problem is - the publishers and editors. They absolutely need to put their foot down with him. In fact, I think it's the exact same problem that was had with Robert Jordan. I'm not saying all creativity needs this - in fact, I think most authors do fine without it. That's reason enough for me to say that they need to step in. Obviously at some point there's been a breakdown in the publisher-editor-author process at the author end. That's why there are publishers and editors.

I can understand and sympathize with GRRM's frustration with his fans. I think a lot of fans are over the top, criticizing him as if he's not allowed to have a life outside of writing. It reminds me of Misery, and not in a good way. However, I don't think their behavior excuses him from all criticism about the timetable of his writing.