German publisher of D&D 4E won't renew contract

[Keefe the Thief]

Well, there is also a starter-set for TDE there.

And of course, the elitisim of some TDE players makes it that many younger and new roleplayers believe their prejudice about D&D being only about hack-and-slay and not having anything for roleplaying.
The newer generation does look up to the older one, after all, and most of the old-school TDE players will naturally try to persuade new players to stay away from the american devil-lolipop, D&D.

That´s balanced out by the D&D players in my universities gaming club telling newcomers "don´t play TDE - only kids play that!" This isolationism especially between TDE and D&D in Germany has always looked pretty dumb to me.

... now, if we really want to get into this topic, we could continue with "what White Wolf players think about D&D and / or TDE players."

 

[Roman]

Interesting about D&D not being the dominant RPG in Germany. In Slovakia and the Czech Republic, D&D is also not the most popular RPG. That honor belongs to a domestic (well, Czech) RPG system. I would also note the observation that gamers in Slovakia and the Czech Republic tend to be more simulationist (on average) than appears to be the case in the U.S. - maybe this helps account for the domestic RPG being overwhelmingly dominant. Indeed, I too played the domestic RPG before switching to AD&D 2nd edition and then to D&D 3.X edition.

What is interesting is that since the release of 4E, D&D in general appears to be dying a not-so-slow and painful death. The number of D&D groups is dwindling and even trying to connect with other gamers over the internet, I don't know any groups in the country that have switched to 4E at all. This would not be a problem for me, since I prefer 3.5E, but even these groups seem to be gradually disappearing - I guess because they feel their game is not supported any more - and reverting to the domestic RPG system or switching to other systems altogether. My two groups for which I DM have stayed with 3.5E, but overall, there seems to be a general decline in D&D player-base in the country.

 

[WhatGravitas]

What is interesting is that since the release of 4E, D&D in general appears to be dying a not-so-slow and painful death.

I had that feeling for quite a while, back then when I still primarily lived in Germany (i.e. before '06).

I think 3.0's release by Amigo was great for D&D, as Amigo was large enough to really push it into the open - that NWN was released around the same time just helped even more. Afterwards, I felt that D&D slowly slid back into obscurity - because Amigo dropped it pretty quicky, 3.5 came out (with a shoddy first translation... I mean in my German 3.5 PHB are still 3.0 spell lists), and because F&S was concentrating more on the FR novels than the game line.

Around '07 (at least from what I heard from friends and the web), they got better and caught up with more cent releases (RHoD, MIC and so on)... but then 4E was dropped on them.

And gaming in Germany is less open and public than in the US or UK... and we're losing our FLGS pretty fast these days (at least in Essen & surroundings it got worse over the last years - whenever I come back for summer vacation, it's like another store I've liked has vanished into thin air), so I reckon the whole combination isn't a fortunate one.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Alnag]

What is interesting is that since the release of 4E, D&D in general appears to be dying a not-so-slow and painful death. The number of D&D groups is dwindling and even trying to connect with other gamers over the internet, I don't know any groups in the country that have switched to 4E at all. This would not be a problem for me, since I prefer 3.5E, but even these groups seem to be gradually disappearing - I guess because they feel their game is not supported any more - and reverting to the domestic RPG system or switching to other systems altogether. My two groups for which I DM have stayed with 3.5E, but overall, there seems to be a general decline in D&D player-base in the country.

Sorry Roman, but this whole second paragraph is simply not true. Maybe the fact you are actually in Austria and not Czech republic does not provide you with the whole perspective, but D&D groups are definitely not dying at all, actually the situation is stable as it always was. I can support this claim with actual data, because I run the one of the largest czech RPG portal with Gamers-meet-Gamers service.

My estimate is that half of the groups has switched to 4e, half has stayed with 3.Xe. But we are pretty small the overall number of D&D gamers here is approximately 500 - 1000.

 

[Shadowsong666]

Considering that generally Germans are more simulationistic inclined and have a higher tolerance of complex rules than Americans I give Pathfinder a higher success chance than 4E D&D.

I doubt it, really.
The problem are not "less complex rules" in 4e but more that level1 combat and level20 combat feel basically the same. My gaming group enjoys 4e, but somehow combat simply gets annoying after you have dealt with the strong bad guys and you need to finish the rest.... calculate the losses and stop the round, cause its not fun anymore. Thats a bit frustrating for me imho.

I wouldn't really say that they are more "simulationistic", but instead that they take gaming (like a lot of things) more "serious" - meaning they have less tolerance for corny things because then it looks "childish", i.e. non-appropriate.

At least that's the impression I got from gaming back home.

Cheers, LT.

Well, i think you get it right somehow. ^^
I like gaming and pen & paper games are part of my life for ~18 years now. I really think that some things have changed in that time. The things i am looking for in a game are a bit different now, but i still want to have fun and enjoy the time with my friends. Together.

I like it if the system provides me with choices and makes me think that my choices really matter and a combat system i can't predict the outcome after the first round. I play DnD for a very long time now and 4e really brought me back to DnD, but atm its new and there are many things still missing i want to see and have to get a better experience in playing 4e (classes, paths, magic, feats, the whole f****** online tools story - sorry, but you screwed it up til now ^^).

As long as i go to our gaming sessions and think "hey, thats going to be fun." everything is ok for me. The moment that changes i think i will just have to grab another P&P System and go with that...

but about the german publisher: i don't care. every player i am gaming with understands english well enough to handle a rpg. if i can grab a translation or the original (english) version i always grab the original.

Ok, i think i need a good old weekend session of MERP. Soon.

 

[Roman]

Sorry Roman, but this whole second paragraph is simply not true. Maybe the fact you are actually in Austria and not Czech republic does not provide you with the whole perspective, but D&D groups are definitely not dying at all, actually the situation is stable as it always was. I can support this claim with actual data, because I run the one of the largest czech RPG portal with Gamers-meet-Gamers service.

My estimate is that half of the groups has switched to 4e, half has stayed with 3.Xe. But we are pretty small the overall number of D&D gamers here is approximately 500 - 1000.

I am from Slovakia and even when attending my Austrian university in Vienna, for a substantial portion of the time I lived in Bratislava and commuted. Perhaps the situation is different in the Czech Republic, but in Slovakia there does seem to be a decline in D&D's popularity (OK, so there were never a huge number of people anyway, but still), which, needless to say, is very unfortunate from my perspective, given that I am a D&D fan. My comments were directed at Slovakia - I don't know about the situation in the Czech Republic and have not searched for groups there. I referrenced the Czech Republic to indicate the dominance of the domestic (Czech) RPG system over D&D, which also happens to be dominant in Slovakia.

Regardless, I am lucky that I have my two 3.5E D&D groups for whom I DM - that is certainly sufficient for now.

 

[Pramas]

Interesting about D&D not being the dominant RPG in Germany. In Slovakia and the Czech Republic, D&D is also not the most popular RPG. That honor belongs to a domestic (well, Czech) RPG system.

What game is this?

 

[jdrakeh]

What game is this?

I suspect that it may be Dračí doupě.

[Edit: I have also been told that Dzikie Pola is very popular in Poland, possibly moreso than D&D.]

 

[Angellis_ater]

To re-iterate how the situation looks in Sweden, "Drakar & Demoner Trudvang" and "Eon" (both fantasy games) are the primary roleplaying games played here, with a number of Swedish games filling in the secondary tier (Mutant, Noir, Noctum, Bortom, Western). Anecdotally the most played non-Swedish roleplaying game around here tend to be Storyteller games from White Wolf. I think I'm one of few bastions of D&D gaming around here (and we're also playing Alternity, Drakar & Demoner, Exalted and True20).

 

[Aus_Snow]

Most of what I know about Drakar och Demoner, is here. There's some really nice stuff there. No idea how it plays or what have you, but well, it looks nice.

Does it look good in print, and - more importantly, of course - does it play well?