German-themed game resources

[QuaziquestGM]

This is the first time that I have noticed anyone actually claiming to play The Dark Eye.

I assume that Keefe is German and is playing with the German rules set. (is this true?) I've looked at the English translation and found it to be unplayable, though only due to the fact they did not include the magic system. I noticed at last year's DragonCon that FanPro had finally released the Campaign setting book Land's of Adventura...but still did not include the magic system. (Come on...a fantasy game with both priest and magic users and they never give spell descriptions????) They have finally put the Core book in the 1/2 price bin at my lgs, but I still can't justify the purchase.

However, if you can find it, the core book did strike me as a "German" setting, the assumptions did not quite fit the American (hollywood/pseudo english) assumptions for a quasi European low magic fantasy setting. The depictions of character dress also struck me as German.

The production values of the book were also quite good. You may want to consider it for source material, but again, as translated, this system as a game is unplayable unless you go "Magic free".

 

[WhatGravitas]

However, the term was used, and the notion that the idea of a cultural entity called "Germany" did not exist during that time is simply wrong. The notion of Germany and a German kingdom has been established perhaps in the 10th century, but definitely from the 11th century on.

Huh? Source?

As far as I know, the main part of "German culture" was the more like something like a shared German language. The conception of German culture (Goethe, Bach, Mozart, "Land der Dichter und Denker" ("Country of Poets and Thinker")) is a fairly new conception.

Note that you only have a Culture of German-speaking Europe. The only thing that was culturally unifying, was the shared German language. Note that under that conception, Austria and Switzerland are also part of that shared culture.

During the Middle Age, the very fractured sacrum romanum imperium developed from East Francia (which was also called regnum teutonicorum - Realm of the Teutons), which is partially French now. The Germans consist of Frisians, Saxons, Thuringii, Franks, Alamanni, and Bavarii. And I've probably forgotten some.

The name "Deutsch" (or "German") comes from Ludwig der Deutsche ("Louis the German"), and his kingdom fell apart after his death into smaller kingdoms. Later, people just used his name to sound more important, to give their claims more gravitas.

Even today, a Frisian is very different (in local dialect, as well as culture) from a Bavarian, or a Saxon. And I've seen my fair share of local culture - my father is from Bavaria, and I lived in Hesse, Bavaria, and Northrhine-Westphalia.

Just look at the word "German" itself: In Germany, we call ourselves "Deutsche", which stems from diutisc - "Folk". French call us "Allemands" - the origin are the Alamanni. And English call us "Germans", from germanus. If even other languages cannot pin that culture down to a common denominator... well, you get my gist.

The label "German" is floating through history - but is has changed its precise meaning and translation fairly often. And the same region was re-named.

And sorry for being that verbose and stubborn - but doing all that stuff in history for years... tends to burn into your mind.

EDIT: And I think I'll drop it from now on, because it's probably derailing the thread far too much.

This is the first time that I have noticed anyone actually claiming to play The Dark Eye.

I assume that Keefe is German and is playing with the German rules set.

About Keefe - I think it is. "Das Schwarze Auge" (literally: "The Black Eye") is quite popular in Germany. Though it's also a cheap, unplayable D&D rip-off in German!

(Tongue-in-cheek! I just cannot touch it without getting the urge to destroy the books. I cannot stand it... and prefer D&D by so much more for fantasy - despite the flawed German translations of D&D)

Cheers, LT.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Heh, yes TDE is the dominant RPG on the German market. I´ve no idea how good or bad the English translation was, but it´s really been described to me as sub-par very often. A D&D ripoff... well, it was perhaps at it´s conception. If you look at game and background now, you´ll not see a lot of things reminding you of D&D. It´s actually funny how many people´ll tell you that the game you´ve played for all of your life is actually unplayable - but of course, that happens to D&D-players all the time, too.

 

[hong]

AIUI, the Empire from Warhammer FRP/FB is basically the Holy Roman Empire with a veneer of mud.

 

[Turjan]

Huh? Source?

Try this.

The name "Deutsch" (or "German") comes from Ludwig der Deutsche ("Louis the German"), and his kingdom fell apart after his death into smaller kingdoms. Later, people just used his name to sound more important, to give their claims more gravitas.

The title "Louis the German" was not used prior to the 19th century. He was referred to as "rex germanorum" in West-Franconian sources, though.


Anyway, for the RPG, I'd go with WFRP, as hong and others suggested. I find more interesting RPG topics in earlier times, but that was not asked for.

 

[WhatGravitas]

It´s actually funny how many people´ll tell you that the game you´ve played for all of your life is actually unplayable - but of course, that happens to D&D-players all the time, too.

Don't worry - my hate of DSA is more of personal pet peeve, than truly founded. Don't ask why, it simply is that way. Sorry, if I offended you in some way.

Try this.

Okay, this is nice. While I think some things are possibly discussable, I see your point and won't deny that my opinion is flawed. That's the problem with history, eh? Depending on your historian, history can be presented very differently.

Anyway, for the RPG, I'd go with WFRP, as hong and others suggested. I find more interesting RPG topics in earlier times, but that was not asked for.

Yeah... you may want to look here (result of short googling), the official homepage, and surfing a bit around the web. The Warhammer Empire is definitely a nice way to sprinkle medieval flavour on almost any campaign: It's probably the best one can get: The archetypical flavour, minus the historical facts - just the feel, in the dose you want for a fantasy game.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Don't worry - my hate of DSA is more of personal pet peeve, than truly founded. Don't ask why, it simply is that way. Sorry, if I offended you in some way.

Oh, absolutely not. RPGs are games that are mostly centered around emotion - strong likes and dislikes are really a part of the package. Why, i resented D&D for a long time until Eberron made me see the light. And TDE was and is a very specialized game you either love or hate.
So, no worries there.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Don't worry - my hate of DSA is more of personal pet peeve, than truly founded. Don't ask why, it simply is that way. Sorry, if I offended you in some way.

But I know other (including myself) German players that dislike DSA. But I have heard the newest edition (4th) has become a lot better.
I didn't play a lot of DSA, but the old 3-d20 rolls for a skill check system and the Weapon Comparison Factors were a PITA. The setting is interesting and I guess well done, because it offers a lot of variety and an interesting history. But some adventures (while interesting to play) suffer a bit from the fact that they seemed aimed at young, easily impressed players, not as hardcore role players with D&D, Shadowrun and Torg experience.
I liked to say: "Oh, DSA. Dann lass uns mal den Weichspüler rausholen..." (feel free to translate this phrase yourself "

Unfortunately, I can't really add much to the topic at hand.
DSA is certainly a good resource, but it's not entirely German-Themed.
Warhammer's Empire is definitely German-Themed (though sometimes it sounds funny for German speakers. Calling a street "Schwangergasse" (Pregnant Street) and things like that.

I think the Wikipedia links on the topics should provide a good start. It's probably not as if you need a 100% historically accurate description of Germany for a RPG setting.

 

[XCorvis]

Unfortunately, I can't really add much to the topic at hand.
DSA is certainly a good resource, but it's not entirely German-Themed.
Warhammer's Empire is definitely German-Themed (though sometimes it sounds funny for German speakers. Calling a street "Schwangergasse" (Pregnant Street) and things like that.

I think the Wikipedia links on the topics should provide a good start. It's probably not as if you need a 100% historically accurate description of Germany for a RPG setting.

Wikipedia links for the current German states have been a bit more revealing of culture, and the WFRP resources sound interesting. I'm also investigating the Knights Templar and some other knightly orders in the area at the time.

Again, thanks all!

 

[Turjan]

If you ever reconsider the time frame you are aiming at, I'll suggest looking at the high medieval time. Ars Magica is set in one of the sweet spots (around 1220) for D&D-like adventures in this area.