Gestalt 13th Level "Terror and Blasphemy"

[Creamsteak]

Base Saving Throw Bonuses: For each save bonus, choose the better progression from the two classes. For example, a 1st-level gestalt fighter/wizard would have base saving throw bonuses of Fortitude +2, Reflex +0, Will +2--taking the good Fortitude save from the fighter class and the good Will save from the wizard class.

That's all it says one the subject. Is there another example in the rest of the text?

 

[Serpenteye]

They also don't gain a benefit though. So he either gained the aging benefits before becoming a ghost (along with the penalties), or he became a ghost first and maintained his stats.

Really? I thought they continued to mature and learn even after they bacame undead. That is what the increase in the mental ability scores represents. Their bodies are immune to the ravages of time, but their minds are not affected. If anything their mental stats should increase more because they do not suffer from the senility so common in venerable mortals...

Undead Type:
.....
—Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.

This seems to support my interpretation. Undead are immune to damage to their physical ability scores, and thus do not weaken as they age. Their is nothing in the entry about their mental abilities, so I assume that they advance at the same rate as their original race.

 

[Hammerhead]

But aren't Ghosts unable to move on from this world? That might suggest they don't accrue aging benefits. Also, Ghosts don't really have age categories, and aging decreases to ability scores aren't "ability damage." You cannot restore them via magic, for example.

And I think you'll find far more sane mortals, despite their age, than sane ghosts.

 

[Dalamar]

That's all it says one the subject. Is there another example in the rest of the text?

Boy, am I glad that both of my classes have the same save progression. Not having to worry about stuff like this.

Of course, my saves aren't really that great except against spells and spell-like abilities.

Also, I'll convert my char to you format, CS, not just yet. I was almost done with that, but my baby sister hit the Reset button on my comp

 

[Uriel]

That's all it says one the subject. Is there another example in the rest of the text?

"A Gestalt character follows a similar procedure when you attain second and subsequent levels.Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best aspects of each, and applies them to his characteristics.A few caveats apply,however.

Blah Blah Class abilities...

Blah Blah spell casting abilities...

Blah Blah Prestige Classes... "

Take the best aspects of each...that would seem to imply that you did get the bonuses when they occurred from differing classes.

Here's what I did:

Started with F/R etc...once I got Swashbuckler, I continued as above,checking each class, F/R/S, to make sure that I only added a save bonus when that class would have got one in the area.In other words, only when a new bonus applied in the class/es.
Prestige Classes (since they do directly add on), were a bit different, but followed a similar formula within themselves as far as tiering bonuses.

I ended up with +13/+16/+9 and I think that I did it the right way.
CS, have a look (headache for you!!!) and see if you disagree.

BTW, did I mention the 960 HP of damage?
I would so never allow this guy in my game ( wondering if I would want to run a Gestalt Campaign at all, after looking at them now...)

 

[Hammerhead]

Are you sure it's the Gestalt campaign that's the problem, or the broken combination of feats/prestige classes that I've never even heard of that lets you do that amount of damage.

How the heck DID you make a character capable of doing 960 points?

 

[Thomas Hobbes]

To be fair, 960 points is with all maximum damage with all weapons hitting: the best- case scenario. The actual average is half that multiplied by some messy equation involving each attack's to-hit. It's vulnerable to DR, requires lots of weapons of returning or recovering lots of weapons....

I wondered what would happen if you combined two classes that gave sneak attack. Now we know. This ought to be interesting.

 

[Uriel]

To be fair, 960 points is with all maximum damage with all weapons hitting: the best- case scenario. The actual average is half that multiplied by some messy equation involving each attack's to-hit. It's vulnerable to DR, requires lots of weapons of returning or recovering lots of weapons....

I wondered what would happen if you combined two classes that gave sneak attack. Now we know. This ought to be interesting.

Firstly, It is as follows, for hammerhead;

Thrown Dagger is 1D4+5 Int bonus for Insightful Strike (Swashbuckler)+1 for being a +1 dagger,+2 for Specialization (within 30'). 1D4+8, critted=24 +6D6 Sneak (36)= 60 HP max damage per dagger.

Next, I have 2 weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, greater two weapon fighting and rapid shot and Haste. That's 8 attacks a round.
Next, Palm Throw allows each attacks to be 2 daggers (each with the chance of critting and getting the sneak damage. Unlike Manyshot, nothing in any text precludes this).

60 damage X16 daggers =960 points of possible damage.

Yes, it is vulnerable to DR, or someone who can negate my 9th level Sneak ability (high level barbarian etc...),Fortification armor,etc... but they are Ranged Touch attacks.
Unlike a magic bow, which gives all of it's bonus to it's arows, no matter how many it fires, I have to buy a *%^#load of daggers.

Currently (not finalized), I have 16 +1 daggers (36,832 of my 110,000GP), as well as a bunch of normal ones, iron,silver etc...in a Haversack/bag of holiding.

I only gained 1D6 of Sneak from the Skullclan Hunter, and that wasn't my intention(I could have gone assassin or something and done even more damage).
You see, the Skullclan hunter allows my Sneaks to be used against Undead...

The Classes are all Core, or from the Complete Warrior/Miniatures HB, within the realm of CS's book selection.

The class is hardly broken, since I will never, under any circumstances, actually do that much damage (mathmeticians,please feel free to get to work on probabilities of 32D4 and 96D6 rolling max...,after hitting 16 times and critting 16 times, that is.). I have vulnerabilities in the lack of a huge huge bonus weapon (I'm sure you melee types will hav a staggering amount of damage/special things as well).Protection against missiles would hurt my effectieness (although I'm still attacking 7 times a round in melee at that point).
I did a Quick non-Gestalt version, and he still could do around 396 HP of damage in a round at max...

Ah, the knife-thrower has arrived.

PS:My attack line looks like this:
+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+15/+15/+15/+10/+10/+10/+10...
1D4+8 Crit 17-20/X2 Ranged touch attacks.

 

[Kalanyr]

The key thing in support of undead not gaining ability increases from ageging is if you look at any of the official NPCs like Szass Tam in the FRCS, if you assume he does have ageing bonuses he was really stupid as a young wizard. (Int 17 assuming he put absolutely none of his level up bonuses in Int, which seems unlikely. More probably Int 12. With all ability increases in Int. Most of the other immortal formerly human NPCs likewise get fairly abysmal base scores assuming aging. )

 

[Paxus Asclepius]

Next, Palm Throw allows each attacks to be 2 daggers (each with the chance of critting and getting the sneak damage. Unlike Manyshot, nothing in any text precludes this).

Except that, for all such circumstances where multiple attacks are made, only one can gain sneak attack or other precision damage. That's a general rule that was restated specifically for Manyshot, not a specific rule for the one feat.