Gestalt: Blood Magus and Daggerspell Mage build

[Dandu]

Ah yes, the Duskblade. It's a class that's pretty suited to melee combat and magic because it gets features useful to both. Full BAB is good, along with the ability to cast in armor and channel weapons through spells. You'll deal damage with feats like Power Attack and Arcane Strike, which are good feats. Better than Sneak Attack in my book because you have to jump through hoops to sneak attack common enemies like undead, constructs, elementals, plants, oozes, concealment, and etc.

Of interesting note is that you wizard side allows you to cast the spell Wraithstrike, which lets you make all attacks in one round as touch attacks. Much Power Attacking can ensue.

 

[Shreav]

Is there any reason why I would take levels in Wiz instead of Sorc?

EDIT: Assuming Wraithstrike is available for Sorc, that is.

EDIT2: The Duskblade is a great class, but what had me going with the beguiler was that I don't lose out too much with skill points. That was important to me since I wanted to be skillful in a range of things. I could always take a level of rogue at the start for the extra skill points, but I don't know... I'm going to keep exploring and see what I come up with. I guess I'll post the result here.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Is there any reason why I would take levels in Wiz instead of Sorc?

Mostly because the sorcerer's main advantages over the wizard are number of spells per day and repeatability of tricks. If you're already a duskblade, who gets ridiculous numbers of 5th-and-below spells for channeling already and is a spontaneous caster, it's much more useful to go wizard, because you get spells a level sooner and can mix up your tactics every day. Also, since both Duskblade and Wizard are Int-based, this focuses your ability scores and lets you max out Int for more skill points instead of having to split it Int/Cha.

EDIT2: The Duskblade is a great class, but what had me going with the beguiler was that I don't lose out too much with skill points. That was important to me since I wanted to be skillful in a range of things. I could always take a level of rogue at the start for the extra skill points, but I don't know... I'm going to keep exploring and see what I come up with. I guess I'll post the result here.

The skillmonkey-ness is why both of us suggested Unseen Seer--it's a dual progression skills/arcane class that gives 6+Int skill point and has some other handy features like sneak attack advancement. If your first level on that side is rogue and you alternate Unseen Seer (once you qualify for it) with Fatespinner, you're a fairly good secondary skills guy. Granted, between levels 2 and 5, you're missing out on those skills, but as noted above Int is your primary stat, therefore giving you more skill points.

Now, if skills are a primary concern of yours, you can go with beguiler on the wizard side instead. You won't have many of the wizard buffs for gishing it up, but you can simply rely on duskblade for that--since it does that pretty well on its own--and build the beguiler/rogue/unseen servant for skills, possibly trading fatespinner out for another arcane skillmonkey PrC (though by higher levels skills are less important).

 

[Shreav]

I've basically just realized this: Eldritch Lord's idea about the Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Duskblade +10, along with Dandu's suggestion for the other side is a great idea, but with one fundamental flaw. You can't take levels in 2 different PrC at the same character level.

Additionally, while Wraithstrike is appealing, it's prerequisites are pretty much useless in the campaign I'm doing. On top of that, you need to take a level in Cleric to acquire one of the prerequisites, which is Turn/Rebuke Undead. So, that sucks too...

I've been thinking about what I can possibly do, and here's what I think, considering that in our campaign our starting character levels are level 2.

So, I'd basically start off like this:

1. Rogue/Sorcerer
2. Duskblade/Unseen Seer

The aim, though, is this:

Side 1 - Rogue 1/Duskblade 17/Rogue 2
Side 2 - Sorc 1/Unseen Seer 3/Mindbender 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Unseen Seer 7/Fate Spinner 3

What do you guys think? It's very close to what you guys suggested, but I essentially lose out on a level for Fate Spinner.

 

[Dandu]

I've basically just realized this: Eldritch Lord's idea about the Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Duskblade +10, along with Dandu's suggestion for the other side is a great idea, but with one fundamental flaw. You can't take levels in 2 different PrC at the same character level.

If you went with Abjurant Champion for the other side, the Wizard side wouldn't be taking most of those prestige classes as he'd not have a method of qualifying.

Additionally, while Wraithstrike is appealing, it's prerequisites are pretty much useless in the campaign I'm doing. On top of that, you need to take a level in Cleric to acquire one of the prerequisites, which is Turn/Rebuke Undead. So, that sucks too...

What in the Nine Hells are you talking about? Wraithstrike is a 2nd level Sorcerer/Wizard spell with no prerequisites other than being a 3rd level wizard or 4th level sorcerer.

What do you guys think? It's very close to what you guys suggested, but I essentially lose out on a level for Fate Spinner.

Int for skills, Cha for spellcasting, Dex for AC and to hit, Con for hit points... can you see where I'm going with this?

 

[Shreav]

If you went with Abjurant Champion for the other side, the Wizard side wouldn't be taking most of those prestige classes as he'd not have a method of qualifying.

According to Complete Mage, the requirements for Abjurant Champion and Unseen Seer are, respectively:

AbjChamp:
Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Feat: Combat Casting.
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 1st-level arcane spells,
including at least one abjuration spell.
Special: Must be proficient with at least one martial weapon.

Unseen Seer:
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Search 8 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks,
Spellcraft 4 ranks, Spot 8 ranks.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells, including
at least two divination spells.

I am able to fulfill all these requirements (except the BAB of +5, which I am trying to fix now), even the ability to cast 2 Div spells and 1 Abj spell for the Wizard. I was under the impression that by taking level in Unseen Seer, I was essentially increasing my caster level as well?

What in the Nine Hells are you talking about? Wraithstrike is a 2nd level Sorcerer/Wizard spell with no prerequisites other than being a 3rd level wizard or 4th level sorcerer.

Apologies. Thought you were talking about this, for some reason. Great spell, your one.

Int for skills, Cha for spellcasting, Dex for AC and to hit, Con for hit points... can you see where I'm going with this?

Not sure if I'm following since I'm still quite new to the whole DnD scene, but I guess you're trying to say that I'm trying to do too much? However, I rolled well. I was thinking of going like this:

STR - 15
DEX - 16
CON - 14
WIS - 16
INT - 16
CHA - 16

 

[Dandu]

According to Complete Mage, the requirements for Abjurant Champion and Unseen Seer are, respectively:

AbjChamp:
Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Feat: Combat Casting.
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 1st-level arcane spells,
including at least one abjuration spell.
Special: Must be proficient with at least one martial weapon.

Unseen Seer:
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Search 8 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks,
Spellcraft 4 ranks, Spot 8 ranks.
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells, including
at least two divination spells.

I am able to fulfill all these requirements (except the BAB of +5, which I am trying to fix now), even the ability to cast 2 Div spells and 1 Abj spell for the Wizard. I was under the impression that by taking level in Unseen Seer, I was essentially increasing my caster level as well?

A wizard cannot have that many skill ranks in a cross class skill such as Hide and Search until level 13.

Not sure if I'm following since I'm still quite new to the whole DnD scene, but I guess you're trying to say that I'm trying to do too much? However, I rolled well. I was thinking of going like this:

STR - 15
DEX - 16
CON - 14
WIS - 16
INT - 16
CHA - 16

If you rolled stats well, that's a slightly different issue, but you are still going to have to spend money and points boosting 4 stats instead of focusing on 3. Something to think about.

Also, you don't need so much Wis, and Dex is less important than Con for someone who will be wearing armor, so you could go

STR - 16
DEX - 14
CON - 16
WIS - 15
INT - 16
CHA - 16

If you were a wizard, you could focus your stats a bit and use

STR - 16
DEX - 16
CON - 16
WIS - 15
INT - 16
CHA - 14

 

[Shreav]

Yes, you are right, I misunderstood the rank prerequisites as being the overall bonus.

And I made another mistake. I meant to have wizard up there like you originally suggested.

Dang, looks like I need to go back and think about things. But, I don't think that I'll be able to get Abjurant Champion because of that problem I mentioned before.

EDIT:

Well, going by your suggestions the only thing I can think of is this in order:

Side 1: Rogue 1/Duskblade 3/Rogue 2/Duskblade 10/Rogue 2/Duskblade 2/Rogue 1
Side 2: Wizard 5/MindBender 1/Unseen Seer 10/Fate Spinner 4

I can't get Abjurant Champion until I get level 6, and I can't put it in side 1 at all. I can't put it in Side 2 without getting rid of level in Mindbender and Fate Spinner, or without even delaying the benefits of having levels of Unseen Seer starting at character level 7.

 

[Shreav]

I don't suppose anyone else has other suggestions? I'd be grateful. =]