Gestalt Characters

[jason_gosse]

I am soon starting a game and am thinking about useing Gestalt Charicters for both my pc and npc. Has any one ever played a gestalt game befor or beter yet run one.

I am wondering mostly how much should I up the cr of the things i thow at them.
also what are some difacultiys I may come up with.

Gestalt Characters are on page 72 of the unearthed arcana. if you want to read what they are.

 

[Patlin]

I've put some thought into it, but I haven't tried it yet. Here are some restrictions I've considered to limit the power differential.

1. Low point buy -- possibly 25.
2. No multiclassing, other than the gestalting of the 2 base classes. (Any 20 level base class will do, so Knight, Scout, Warlock etc are fair game.)

Even so, you'll want to up the difficulty level. I recomend planning as if your party was one level higher, then adjusting from there once you get a feel for it.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

I've played in one.
My best estimation is that you take increase the group's power by 1 per 3 levels to get a rough idea of their power level.

 

[jason_gosse]

I've put some thought into it, but I haven't tried it yet. Here are some restrictions I've considered to limit the power differential.

1. Low point buy -- possibly 25.
2. No multiclassing, other than the gestalting of the 2 base classes. (Any 20 level base class will do, so Knight, Scout, Warlock etc are fair game.)

Even so, you'll want to up the difficulty level. I recomend planning as if your party was one level higher, then adjusting from there once you get a feel for it.

well I had planed to use a 90 point buy from the begining but I have noticed from some of the stuff I have scean on this site and others that might be going a little high. (I have been wondering is point buy the number of points in total or number above 10. I thought it was number in total )


Now I plan to make up alot of the things they fight my self. I am makeing up the main big bad right now. (level 20 warmage. or warmage fighter half blue dragon. ogre mage ecl 35 ) so for those i wont be worried a group of 3rd level npc will have the same advantage my pc's have. but for creatures I think i will have to do something +1 for level 1-5 +2 for level 6-10 and then again as it gose up.

 

[Jack Simth]

In general, Gestalt characters are more durable than their normal counterparts, and have better endurance.

They aren't overly more powerful.

In general, if everything else is "standard" (WBL followed, 4 level appropriet encounters per day, et cetera):
If the beasty you're throwing them against relies on attacks with saves (e.g., a CR 7 Medusa) use things at +2 CR compared to what you'd use against a "normal" party (so a Medusa would be an appropriet challenge for a gestalt party of four 5th level characters).
If the beasty you're throwing at them relies mostly on things without saves (e.g., a CR 7 Hill Giant) use things at +1 CR compared to what you'd use against a "normal" party (so a Hill Giant would be an appropriet challenge for a gestalt party of four 6th level characters).

Warning:
Occasionally, a beastie's challenge rating is loosly based around the spell level of the counter; if for whatever reason, the counter isn't available (because it is a few spell levels away, perhaps), the beastie's effective CR goes up.

Also:
Not all combinations are created equal; some amount of min-maxing is required to prevent gimping a character. It's usually much more effective if you have a "primary" class that fills the role you want the character to have, and a "secondary" class that covers its weaknesses - so you can have a Sorcerer/paladin that focuses on spells with attack rolls and ranged combat (essentially giving up armor proficency and Smite in favor of spellcasting) or a Paladin/sorcerer that focuses on Still Spell and personal buffs (essentially giving up zappy type spells in favor of melee). The Paladin/Sorcerer that tries to be a full caster and a full meleer will have issues (stat distribution, ASF, et cetera).

A couple of suggestions for requirements of your players final build:
At least 2 good saves (no Wizard/Sorcerers, please).
At least d8 HD.
At least one side must be a full "caster" (Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Psion, Wilder, et cetera - 9th level spell type abilities) to reduce the builds that are easily eclipsed by "magic".

 

[jason_gosse]

A couple of suggestions for requirements of your players final build:
At least 2 good saves (no Wizard/Sorcerers, please).
At least d8 HD.
At least one side must be a full "caster" (Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Psion, Wilder, et cetera - 9th level spell type abilities) to reduce the builds that are easily eclipsed by "magic".

Up untill this I was likeing what you said and am taking that all under consideration, but I have no plans to place any limit on what class they wish to take, but i do plan to limit multi-classing if i allow it at all . I may make some sugjestions but thats it.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Be careful with the multiclassing and prestige classes.
Use the fractional progression in the US if you allow multiclassing.
Do not allow class combing prestige classes (mystic theurge and the like).

After level 3, if you allow the party time to buff up before combat, they can take on some serious stuff much earlier than expected.

I would also suggest that any PC with two full caster classes that you require one of them to be spontaneous. I had a wizard/druid and I took forever to mem spells. Going back I would have gone another route (sorc/favored soul).

 

[jason_gosse]

Be careful with the multiclassing and prestige classes.
Use the fractional progression in the US if you allow multiclassing.
Do not allow class combing prestige classes (mystic theurge and the like).

After level 3, if you allow the party time to buff up before combat, they can take on some serious stuff much earlier than expected.

I would also suggest that any PC with two full caster classes that you require one of them to be spontaneous. I had a wizard/druid and I took forever to mem spells. Going back I would have gone another route (sorc/favored soul).

I had thought about useing the gestalt for Prestige as well but changed my mind. And I am sure I will limit if not ban multiclassing. a friend asked could i do fighter/ranger 10 Fighter/rouge 10 and he hurt my brain.

as i said befor i don't want to limit what classes they can Pick but I will strongly sugjest avoiding A wiz/dru type combo.

 

[Whimsical]

What I have found to be a nice solid bump in PC ability and survivability was having my PCs gestalt with Aristocrat. Aristocrat helps every PC class a little bit. And you can have noble scenarios.

 

[Jack Simth]

Up untill this I was likeing what you said and am taking that all under consideration, but I have no plans to place any limit on what class they wish to take, but i do plan to limit multi-classing if i allow it at all . I may make some sugjestions but thats it.

Any intelligent player in gestalt (unless they are specifically looking to make things hard on themselves, or have good anti-caster skills as a non-caster) will do those anyway. It renders characters that will usually find they have something useful they can do in basically any situation, and have a good deal of survivability (although you can make gimped characters with those rules, it's harder, and you're unlikely to do so by accident).

Of course, if after a PC death, they can quickly try a different character, it's not too much of an issue...