Gestalt Help

[Loonook]

The Shintao Monk and Henshin Mystic grant "Monk Abilities", it does not stack per Gestalt (you would either get Monk Abilities or Monk Abilities), although all of the remaining class features would be granted.
War Chanter does not grant Bard Abilities, and they do not give the same benefits. They are different abilities. You would acquire both.

In D&D a ECL 20 character who takes 10/Cleric 10 turns at level 17. The two abilities are awarded in two separate classes, serve as the same ability, and stack for purposes of leveling.

In your system of Gestalt I can create a Paladin/Cleric 10 who turns at level 17. They would have the better of the choice for Turn checks, and a high enough Turn to cause problems...

Now per your reading of what I presented this cannot occur... But it is legal within the RAW for a singleton class.... And if it works in the singleton it would stack in Gestalt. Exact same ability placed at different levels...

Just like my suggestions for the two monks.

But go on...

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Sekhmet]

In D&D a ECL 20 character who takes 10/Cleric 10 turns at level 17. The two abilities are awarded in two separate classes, serve as the same ability, and stack for purposes of leveling.

In your system of Gestalt I can create a Paladin/Cleric 10 who turns at level 17. They would have the better of the choice for Turn checks, and a high enough Turn to cause problems...

Now per your reading of what I presented this cannot occur... But it is legal within the RAW for a singleton class.... And if it works in the singleton it would stack in Gestalt. Exact same ability placed at different levels...

Just like my suggestions for the two monks.

But go on...

Slainte,

-Loonook.

Incorrect. A Paladin's Turn ability would not stack with a Cleric's in a Gestalt game, the Cleric's is strictly better. The player would use the better of the two. The clause "as a cleric of three levels lower would" is what makes them not stack in a Gestalt game.
A 10 Paladin/10 Cleric would turn like a 10 Cleric in a Gestalt game.
A 10 Paladin/10 Cleric would turn like a 17th level Cleric in a regular game.

Turn Undead is a terrible example for your argument, as it has hard limitations that work off of your class level, anyway.

 

[Loonook]

Incorrect. A Paladin's Turn ability would not stack with a Cleric's in a Gestalt game, the Cleric's is strictly better. The player would use the better of the two. The clause "as a cleric of three levels lower would" is what makes them not stack in a Gestalt game.
A 10 Paladin/10 Cleric would turn like a 10 Cleric in a Gestalt game.
A 10 Paladin/10 Cleric would turn like a 17th level Cleric in a regular game.

Turn Undead is a terrible example for your argument, as it has hard limitations that work off of your class level, anyway.

And that's what I needed. Thanks.

Your interpretation states that the abilities when in the same class combo don't work... But they work when the classes are separated.

So again, a Monk/Henshin 10 Monk/Shintao 5 will do the same...

Or of course you can just eliminate the extra 5... And if you go Monk/Fighter 5, Monk/Henshin 10, Monk/Randomfiller 5 you still have 30 levels worth of the ability.

Or of course, you can always go Fighter/Cleric 10, Paladin/Wizard 10 and get your 17 Cleric Levels... You see, the Cleric and Paladin sides have a named ability of the same type that functions in the same way as your Bardic abilities... Right?

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Sekhmet]

And that's what I needed. Thanks.

Your interpretation states that the abilities when in the same class combo don't work... But they work when the classes are separated.

So again, a Monk/Henshin 10 Monk/Shintao 5 will do the same...

Or of course you can just eliminate the extra 5... And if you go Monk/Fighter 5, Monk/Henshin 10, Monk/Randomfiller 5 you still have 30 levels worth of the ability.

Or of course, you can always go Fighter/Cleric 10, Paladin/Wizard 10 and get your 17 Cleric Levels... You see, the Cleric and Paladin sides have a named ability of the same type that functions in the same way as your Bardic abilities... Right?

Slainte,

-Loonook.

Perhaps I don't fully understand how you're combining Monk/Henhin Mystic/Shintao Monk. At any level where you progress in both simultaneously, you only get "Monk Abilities" once. Your "Monk Abilities" couldn't exceed your HD in that way.
With Paladin/Cleric, the Turn Undead feature that both get can't stack in a Gestalt game. The Paladin's Turn Undead is a weakened Cleric Turn Undead (as per it's wording). They can in a standard game, although they don't get uses per day in that fashion.
With his Bard/War Chanter question, they are not named the same, nor are they the same ability, although one directly adds to the other. The War Chanter's "War Chanting" is NOT a modified Bardic Music, it ADDS to Bardic Music. This is very different to the "Monk Abilities" argument.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

If I played a Cleric//Dread Necromancer where the cleric side Turned undead and obviously the Dread Necro Rebuked, would I get both? And any feats that were powered by turn/rebuke attempts would be superfueled?

In this case, are they different abilities?

 

[Loonook]

Perhaps I don't fully understand how you're combining Monk/Henhin Mystic/Shintao Monk. At any level where you progress in both simultaneously, you only get "Monk Abilities" once. Your "Monk Abilities" couldn't exceed your HD in that way.
With Paladin/Cleric, the Turn Undead feature that both get can't stack in a Gestalt game. The Paladin's Turn Undead is a weakened Cleric Turn Undead (as per it's wording). They can in a standard game, although they don't get uses per day in that fashion.
With his Bard/War Chanter question, they are not named the same, nor are they the same ability, although one directly adds to the other. The War Chanter's "War Chanting" is NOT a modified Bardic Music, it ADDS to Bardic Music. This is very different to the "Monk Abilities" argument.

The Monk's abilities, which are generated by 15 overall levels of Shintao and Henshin combined with the natural 20 levels from the Monk don't stack... I'm using your rules and showing all my math... Your bard levels will do the same stacking as mine according to you... but will somehow give an effective bard level of 30 for the purposes of the amount and strength of Bardic Music.

Fighter/Monk is 5 levels, Monk/Henshin 10 works out to 20 according to your system...

Bard/X 5, Bard/War Chanter 10 doesn't supply you with an EL of 25 for purposes of bardic music. Just like the use of Henshin/Shintao does not supply 10 additional EL for the purposes of monk abilities. The functions of the two provide stacking benefits, that function in the same way (the levels stack). You can get the War Chanter songs (in lieu of your normal songs for those levels)... All level-based benefits reduce themselves, and you don't just mystically gain 2 levels for each 1 gained for the purposes of bardic advancement.

It's really simple, and this is now the 6th post I have made on it... If you're not understanding it please review the rules in regards to like benefits gained at the same time overlapping. Just because this is a strangely worded ability (not uncommon in the wonders of the 1st gen 3.5 splats)... And it is silly to act as if you can hypercharge the character. As I said there are plenty of useful bard, fighter, or straight arcane caster builds that can be used in lieu of this stacking, and doing levels of bard/WC is suboptimal at best. Go with either Warchanter/Base Class (Would probably suggest a martial class that work with your Chants), divine casting, Marshall or even a Martial character from BO9S.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Sekhmet]

Bard/X 5, Bard/War Chanter 10 doesn't supply you with an EL of 25 for purposes of bardic music. ---use of Henshin/Shintao does not supply 10 additional EL for the purposes of monk abilities. ----The functions of the two provide stacking benefits, that function in the same way (the levels stack). You can get the War Chanter songs (in lieu of your normal songs for those levels)... All level-based benefits reduce themselves, and you don't just mystically gain 2 levels for each 1 gained for the purposes of bardic advancement.--- hypercharge

You'll forgive me for hacking our post apart.
War Chanter does not grant more powerful Bard songs, it does not increase the effectiveness of Bard songs, it does not change the Bard level as it pertains to using Bard songs. You do not "gain two levels for each one for the purpose of [...] advancement".

All of your examples have done all four of those examples, where War Chanter and Bard simply do not.
You seem to have an exaggerated idea of what a War Chanter is, and I recommend you reexamine the text provided on the subject in the Complete Warrior book, as you may have misread it initially. Afterwards, reexamine the text in the Gestalt entry.