Get This - Paladin's mount not immune to fear

[Longbow]

Not to forget the mount shares the saving throws of the Paladin and they will normaly be better (they´d better be ) than the saves of the mount. Add to that the + 4 from Aura of Courage and the chanches should be quite good that the mount makes the save.

Edit: Oops, the mount shares only the base saving throw bonus and nothing else. Oh well, the mount is screwed. Better prepare some remove fear spells.

 

[Darklone]

This reminds me somehow of LotR 3...

When the horses ran away... (IIRC with the scabbard of Aragorns sword...which he had later inside...)

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

If a Paladin's Mount ISN'T immune to fear, it removes one of the Paladin's most basic special abilities; Immunity to Fear.

A mount is an intelligent creature (as smart as an average person at later levels). At hihger levels, it will RARELY make its save vs fear (it has a paladin's base Will Save (which is poor), a +1 or 2 from its Wis & the +4 from being in the Paladin Aura. At high levels most creatures (demons, devils, dragons), low-level fear effects will be at the 19-20 range & high level powers in teh mid-20's to low 30's (Dragon Fear is often worse). Thus a paladin who rides is mount inot batltle, will often be dragged back OFF the field as his mount wets itself and runs away, paladin still strapped to teh saddle.

One of the main reasons to PLAY a paladin over a fighter is that he won't run away in battle. If he is strapped into the saddle, he's almost as likely to run away as a fighter. Of course, he could just go into battle without his mount (but that means he gives up his Special Mount ability, another core aspect of the class).

A paladin is a mounted warrior immune to fear (sort of how the class is built). For his mount to not have the same protection weakens the class. Of course if you are fine with that, then there is no problem

Vraille Darkfang

 

[Christian]

Thus a paladin who rides is mount inot batltle, will often be dragged back OFF the field as his mount wets itself and runs away, paladin still strapped to teh saddle.

'Strapped to the saddle'? I'm gathering you've never ridden a horse ...

 

[Khristos]

remember the mount of a paladin will gain additional feats... depending on source material allowed that can increase. The mount is also considered to have a good Wiill save for it's HD. also while it doesnt share the gift of grace bonus to save any spells on the paladin CAN be shared with the mount. This isnt as grim as it first appears

 

[0-hr]

Wah wah wah! Suck it up holy boy. This sounds like a great way for the rest of the party to finally get that nagging do-gooder out of there hair so they can question those prisoners properly.

Honestly, the rules as written are pretty clear and I for one do not see a balance issue. Too many people treat their mounts and pets like a piece of equipment. Anything that reminds people these critters are independent beings is a good thing in my book.

 

[ForceUser]

This is an interesting theoretical discussion, but what I wanted to know was if having a special mount feared had ever actually happened to someone!

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

This is the perfect opportunity for a houserule. It's kinda hard to play the heroic paladin/cavalier type when your mount is running away from a lowly cause fear spell...

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

'Strapped to the saddle'? I'm gathering you've never ridden a horse ...

Never REALLY ridden a horse; no, but what I was refering to was riding in a military saddle; actually tied to the saddle (possible, but not smart); or wearing a breastplate & trying to jump off a horse going at a full run 100+ ft per 6 seconds (1 rd) in the opposite direction, and not fall flat on your face and be eaten by the dragon you were hoping to kill.

remember the mount of a paladin will gain additional feats... depending on source material allowed that can increase. The mount is also considered to have a good Wiill save for it's HD. also while it doesnt share the gift of grace bonus to save any spells on the paladin CAN be shared with the mount.

First, Yes the mount does gain extra feats (Iron Will might be a good one).

Second, the mount has a POOR Will save (in 3.5). And a Paladin also has a Poor Will save. Thus even though the mount uses the Paladin's base Will Save, it would still only have a Base of +6 when the Paladin is 20th level (the horse has a base Will of +4) All this assumes a Heavy Warhorse is a mount. The warhorse still has a good chance of running in terror when presented with any opponent of a reasonable CR thta has a fear ability.

Third the +4 bonus to saves is a MORALE bonus. Many of the plus to save spells are Morale bonuses, so they won't stack.

Finally, I'm not saying it isn't an easy thing to fix. After all, high level fighters have the same problem with Will saves. Most high level fighters need to have a magic item to protect vs fear otherwise they run away. (I have a 12th lvl fighter with no Wis bonus; I had to beg at the local LG church and agree to whatever they wanted just so I could get something so I wouldn't keep using the line "Yes, Master, Whatever you want Master!".

You simply need to get your mount something that protects agianst fear. My main reason I don't like this is.... How often to you find Magical Barding of Fear Immunity? If every paladin really needed magical help to protect their horse, Magical Trinkets would abound for horses. Every 3rd treasure horde would have one.

In the end, It just seems wrong to give a Paladin one special ability (immunity to fear) then comprimise it a few levels later by giving him a mount that needs some sort of protection vs fear. The whole idea is that Fear is something a Paladin doesn't need to worry about.

Just think Fear is one thing a Paladin shouldn't worry about,
Vraille Darkfang

 

[Felix]

I thought Magical Beasts got good base Will saves... and isn't that what a Paladin's mount is? If so, the mount has a +12 base at 20th, +4 from Aura of courage, +2 from Wisdom to amount to a +18 Will save vs Fear effects. That's a fair save, certainly better than the Fighter who might not always be within the Aura of Courage radius of the Paladin. But it still presents the possibility that even a Paladin's mount will find things too friggin scary, which isn't a bad thing. After all, a Paladin's mount isn't a Paladin itself.

And even if the mount gets scared, would there be no Ride check to control the horse to keep it from running away? (And Aragorn wasn't mounted at the time, so that example doesn't count. Heh)